Haybusa Parts and Service Member Support

Author Topic: Oil  (Read 44114 times)

Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2015, 06:09:38 PM »

My 2005 Mercedes SL55AMG had a 12 quart oil pan..............that is a lot of oil for a 5.5 litre V-8.
Ahhh,a Mercedes man. Ive had several AMG's and still hold this record for the W211 E series:
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/first-stock-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-runs-11s-in-the-14-mile
Does that make us Benzo-buddies now? :mrgreen:

And yeah,the $250 oil changes with Mobil-1 at the dealer sucked :eek:

You must have removed every ounce of legal weight you could, right down to letting the air out of the spare. Nice work. I would have worried ya, though, with that 2005...just barely breathed upon.  Each friggin' engine had a plaque on it sighed by the ONE MAN that assembled that engine from start to finish.  Nice car.  Loved the convertible hardtop.......Blew peoples' minds at stoplights.  Triple adjustable suspension to lower ground clearance was neat as well.  It was smooth as it could be at 160-170..........then I backed out.  Survival instinct took over.
I had a C55,an 05 E55 and and 06 CLS55 before I had the E63 so yes,I do know about the supecharged AMG's. Lots of fun;I was VERY into the Mercedes/AMG scene. I remeber sending a letter to the dude Hanz that assembled my engine on the record holding E63,he wrote back he was very happy and proud. That E63 was bone stock,right down to the tires. I even had the babyseat in then back;if you watvh the vid on dragtimes you will see it in the back lol. I wish I still had that E55. Was my favorite out of all of em. Ahh the good ole days before the economy took a shit lol.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2015, 06:49:06 PM »
Yeah, the good old days, when I had money to burn..................should have been a little more careful with my investments.  The new Merz calims around 618 hp out of a v-12.  We have to figure a way to raise that to about 800 or so.   :tu:
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2015, 03:34:24 AM »
Yeah, the good old days, when I had money to burn..................should have been a little more careful with my investments.  The new Merz calims around 618 hp out of a v-12.  We have to figure a way to raise that to about 800 or so.   :tu:
You&me both Uncle Dave,you and me both :(

So,are you referring to the V-12 TT? Man,an ECU flash from AMS,ReNNtech or a few other top-notch tuners bumps HP&TQ quite a bit. I had always wanted an SL65..738ft/lbs stock. A friend had a tuned SL65,made 800rwhp and over 1000ft/lbs. Talk about being pinned to the back of the seat when you mashed the throttle :shock:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2015, 03:27:30 PM »
Yes, that is the car.  RennTech is where I got my new pulley and the ECU flash for my SL55AMG.  Quality parts.  Pricey, though. 

I cannot imagine 800 HP and 1K ft lbs.  Off my understanding scale. 

All those engines AMG series are "overbuilt"/i.e. able to put out a lot more without worry of breakage, IMO.   
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 03:29:42 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 04:39:08 PM »
The limiting factor with the AMG cars was for the most part not the engine but the transmission. The engines were often detuned so the maximum torque the transmissions could handle was not exceeded.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2015, 09:43:18 PM »
That makes perfect sense..............I added only 50 hp and the car ran faster and quicker, but that was only 50 out of 550.  I would suspect that the tranny would be OK with maybe 75-100 more HP, but after that, who knows?
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2015, 05:36:24 AM »
That makes perfect sense..............I added only 50 hp and the car ran faster and quicker, but that was only 50 out of 550.  I would suspect that the tranny would be OK with maybe 75-100 more HP, but after that, who knows?
The S/C AMG's from that era had the same trans as the top-dog SL65&CL-65. That 5-sp could handle A LOT,more than any supercharged AMG could throw at it. Like was posted above,once u reached a certain point in torque thats when things got iffy. But they handled 800-900 ft/lbs with ease
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Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2015, 10:28:46 AM »
That makes perfect sense..............I added only 50 hp and the car ran faster and quicker, but that was only 50 out of 550.  I would suspect that the tranny would be OK with maybe 75-100 more HP, but after that, who knows?
The S/C AMG's from that era had the same trans as the top-dog SL65&CL-65. That 5-sp could handle A LOT,more than any supercharged AMG could throw at it. Like was posted above,once u reached a certain point in torque thats when things got iffy. But they handled 800-900 ft/lbs with ease

The C-Class, E-Class, CLS etc all have basically the same AMG V-8 engine but in different state of tune due to the gearbox mounted in a particular model. The C-Class is normally at the bottom and the SL at the top.

I really enjoyed the normally aspirated 6.3 but the current TTV8 does great at the high density altitudes we have here in Vegas durning the summer.

Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2015, 12:39:12 PM »
That makes perfect sense..............I added only 50 hp and the car ran faster and quicker, but that was only 50 out of 550.  I would suspect that the tranny would be OK with maybe 75-100 more HP, but after that, who knows?
The S/C AMG's from that era had the same trans as the top-dog SL65&CL-65. That 5-sp could handle A LOT,more than any supercharged AMG could throw at it. Like was posted above,once u reached a certain point in torque thats when things got iffy. But they handled 800-900 ft/lbs with ease

The C-Class, E-Class, CLS etc all have basically the same AMG V-8 engine but in different state of tune due to the gearbox mounted in a particular model. The C-Class is normally at the bottom and the SL at the top.

I really enjoyed the normally aspirated 6.3 but the current TTV8 does great at the high density altitudes we have here in Vegas durning the summer.
Yeah,the E&CLS 55 are basically identical drivetrains. I really enjoyed my C55 when I got it,I was the only one that had one in NY at the time. It replace the C32 S/C V-6. That C surprised A LOT of Vette owners at the time lol. Then I took a test ride in a W211 E55 when I took the C55 for oil change. I traded it in that same day for a Flint Grey E55 lol! In the heat&humidity of the summer,with the A/C blasting it would rip off 12.30-12.40 1/4mi all day...until the intercooler pump took a shit lol....My wife too the E to work one day and got hit by a woman in an Escalade who ran a red light cause she was yapping on her cell. Hit the E55 dead smack on the left side front wheel.
Cracked the engine block and car was a write off. MB qouted the AMG short block alone for $40,000 if I remember correctly. It was mid year in '06 and there were no replacement E55's in coming form Germany so I reluctantly settled for a Flint Grey E63. ...

Loved the sound,loved the 7G trans,loved the higher redline,but missed the low-end grunt of the E55. Especially around town hauling the kid and groceries. I de-badged mine so it looked like an E350 w an AMG appearance package;only an AMG enthusiast could tell by looking at it lol. Would run 12.0's all day long in cool dense air of the NorthEast in the fall. Eventually running that 11.95 which is still the record for a 100% bone stocker. Could never afford to mod it,as LT headers from the cheapest vendor were still $3000+
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2015, 09:20:50 AM »
Now that is a Merz enthusiast.  :yes:
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2015, 02:00:23 PM »
Sounds like a great collection of cars.  I really like the AMG line myself and my ex had an SL.  It is interesting to see how the engine recipe has changed over the years from supercharged to large displacement normally aspirated engines and now TTV8.  But I have to admit, I’m a BMW guy.  The M cars are very appealing to me and my favorite was the E-60 M5 with a 5 liter, 500 hp V-10 revving 8250 rpm.  I loved that car.  The new one, the F10 with a 560 hp TTV8 does not have the soul of the prior model.


Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2015, 08:28:32 PM »
my favorite was the E-60 M5 with a 5 liter, 500 hp V-10 revving 8250 rpm.  I loved that car
Ahh yes. The E-60. That car(once de-restricted)had an amzing top end. It was a legit 200mph car,if given enough room to stretch its legs. Buddy was on his 1st Gen ZX14 and did a 60-190 roll against another friend in his M5.. the 14 shot out as expected but once it topped out around 185mph the M5 slowly caught up and proceeded to walk right past the 14 and kept going until he shut down around 200mph. My buddy on the 14 was in utter disbelief that the car had a greater top end then his bike. :lol:
And yes,that V10 wail is sex for the ears. This particular car had an Eisenmann exhaust and was just music to my ears. That V-10 w the SMG trans was an instant classic when it rolled off the assembly line :tu:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2015, 08:48:49 PM »
Mercedes seems to me to always making certain that none of their car lines get "old".  It is like every time you look their is a new Merz for less money that will out-perform our old cars.  In some ways, anyhow.  I would suggest, if I was a design engineer at Merz, to put twin turbos on the V-12, and place that in a two seater hardtop convertible, with the strongest transmission they can build and expect to live.  Prolly only talking 800-825 HP.  And torque.   
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2015, 11:22:20 PM »
Most people would never suspect a regular looking family sedan would do 200 MPH but just like you stated, the E-60 would. Loved, loved, loved that car.



Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2015, 11:39:20 PM »
Dave, you wish has come true. The SL 65 AMG is equipped with a twin turbo V-12. 621 hp and 738 ft-lb of torque. But you might need to get a hammer out of your Craftsman toolbox and give your piggybank a whack since the car starts at $215k.

Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2015, 05:07:16 AM »
Dave, you wish has come true. The SL 65 AMG is equipped with a twin turbo V-12. 621 hp and 738 ft-lb of torque. But you might need to get a hammer out of your Craftsman toolbox and give your piggybank a whack since the car starts at $215k.
Dave&Wolfe,I was poking arounf on the MBusa website and could not believe the $215k sticker for the Big Daddy SL65!. When I had my last AMG back in 09 the mighty SL was $185k.
The sad part is,how absurdly fast the Benzo's(especially the AMG)depreciate. You can buy a fully loaded 09 SL65 with decently low mileage for $65-70k. That was a $200k car when it rolled off the lot 6yrs ago. :td:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2015, 06:03:04 AM »
Not quite like putting 215K into a new house, is it?  :eek:  Today I am pinchin' pennies to put together a nice street Busa, I lost twice that much when I sold my SL55AMG.  Depreciation on those cars is a bit of a bitch.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 06:05:15 AM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2015, 08:25:05 PM »
Dave, you wish has come true. The SL 65 AMG is equipped with a twin turbo V-12. 621 hp and 738 ft-lb of torque. But you might need to get a hammer out of your Craftsman toolbox and give your piggybank a whack since the car starts at $215k.
Dave&Wolfe,I was poking arounf on the MBusa website and could not believe the $215k sticker for the Big Daddy SL65!. When I had my last AMG back in 09 the mighty SL was $185k.
The sad part is,how absurdly fast the Benzo's(especially the AMG)depreciate. You can buy a fully loaded 09 SL65 with decently low mileage for $65-70k. That was a $200k car when it rolled off the lot 6yrs ago. :td:

Yes, they are great deals used. But I woukd personally not own either an MB or BMW out of warranty. An SL 65 has astronomical repair bills if something happens.

Offline Sport

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Re: Oil
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2015, 09:23:56 PM »

Yes, they are great deals used. But I woukd personally not own either an MB or BMW out of warranty. An SL 65 has astronomical repair bills if something happens.
[/quote]

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Ride em if ya got em

Offline turbo051k

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Re: Oil
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2015, 09:21:12 AM »
Dave, you wish has come true. The SL 65 AMG is equipped with a twin turbo V-12. 621 hp and 738 ft-lb of torque. But you might need to get a hammer out of your Craftsman toolbox and give your piggybank a whack since the car starts at $215k.
Dave&Wolfe,I was poking arounf on the MBusa website and could not believe the $215k sticker for the Big Daddy SL65!. When I had my last AMG back in 09 the mighty SL was $185k.
The sad part is,how absurdly fast the Benzo's(especially the AMG)depreciate. You can buy a fully loaded 09 SL65 with decently low mileage for $65-70k. That was a $200k car when it rolled off the lot 6yrs ago. :td:

Yes, they are great deals used. But I woukd personally not own either an MB or BMW out of warranty. An SL 65 has astronomical repair bills if something happens.
A lot of wanna be Baller's will buy a 5-6yr old AMG for half the price it was when new&then flaunt it and make sure everyone knows its an AMG.

 And then they are in utter disbelief when their brake job just cost $4500. Or if the Airmatic needs to be replaced(SL55's are notorious for this) and the repair bill is $7000. What these wanna be Ballers dont understand is that just because you bought a $190,000 used SL65 for $60k,youre still paying for parts and labor on a $190,000 car!

Like Wolfe said,Id NEVER buy any used AMG or BMW M car without a factory warranty still in place.

Sorry Uncle Dave,this thread was hijacked :hys:
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:22:59 AM by turbo051k »
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Offline FlatlandBusa

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Re: Oil
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2015, 09:57:37 PM »
Dave, you wish has come true. The SL 65 AMG is equipped with a twin turbo V-12. 621 hp and 738 ft-lb of torque. But you might need to get a hammer out of your Craftsman toolbox and give your piggybank a whack since the car starts at $215k.
Dave&Wolfe,I was poking arounf on the MBusa website and could not believe the $215k sticker for the Big Daddy SL65!. When I had my last AMG back in 09 the mighty SL was $185k.
The sad part is,how absurdly fast the Benzo's(especially the AMG)depreciate. You can buy a fully loaded 09 SL65 with decently low mileage for $65-70k. That was a $200k car when it rolled off the lot 6yrs ago. :td:

Yes, they are great deals used. But I woukd personally not own either an MB or BMW out of warranty. An SL 65 has astronomical repair bills if something happens.
A lot of wanna be Baller's will buy a 5-6yr old AMG for half the price it was when new&then flaunt it and make sure everyone knows its an AMG.

 And then they are in utter disbelief when their brake job just cost $4500. Or if the Airmatic needs to be replaced(SL55's are notorious for this) and the repair bill is $7000. What these wanna be Ballers dont understand is that just because you bought a $190,000 used SL65 for $60k,youre still paying for parts and labor on a $190,000 car!

Like Wolfe said,Id NEVER buy any used AMG or BMW M car without a factory warranty still in place.

Sorry Uncle Dave,this thread was hijacked :hys:

Hijacked is the best thing that could possibly happen to an oil thread. :lol:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Oil
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2015, 07:59:05 AM »
What the heck, you can only talk about oil for so long, then it becomes rather dull-as-it-can-be.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 08:01:24 AM by Ghost-Geezer »
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Offline piratediverjefff

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Re: Oil
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2015, 05:54:37 PM »
 :lol:
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day,light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Wolf1397

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Re: Oil
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2015, 02:05:50 PM »
I normally do not participate in oil threads but since we selfishly and without regard hijacked it, I feel obligated to provide an answer.

Firstly I want to address the moronic statement that normally goes like this in oil threads: “I changed my oil with brand X and it works great for me”.  So you thought there might have been a chance that it would not work and your engine would blow up???  To the contrary, one could buy oil at the local supermarket for 69 cents a quart and only change it every 7,000 miles, twice the recommended service interval for a Hayabusa and the engine would still last 100,000 miles without any problems.  There will probably be more wear inside the engine versus one that was serviced with a high quality oil at proper intervals but even the cheapest oil sold would not damage a stock engine.

For modified engines, it is a different story.  Normally aspirated engines typically have higher redlines and more extreme cam profiles.  Film strength becomes important here and I would suggest looking at tests from independent labs.  Just be careful with how recent those tests are since oils are often reformulated even though they are sold in exactly the same bottles and under the same names.  What drives that is EPA requirements and the big oil companies also have an army of chemists and engineers with fancy PhD degrees that do nothing but try to improve the performance of their products.

Turbo motors have different requirements.  Bring your Busa to a certain individual in Canada and you will now have 600+ RWHP versus 155 stock for less than one bet at the black jack table in one of the high roller rooms here in Vegas.  With that amount of power, the loads on main and rod bearings are extreme, so diesel oils are often preferred in those motors since they are designed for that application.  Oil for turbo motors must also be resilient of very high temperatures.

You mentioned “Less than Zero” which refers to the oils viscosity.  The only reason to use that type of oil is to put up a number at the drag strip.  Brock’s business model is to put a 135 pound jockey on a sport bike with stock engine internals and lay down an ET at the quarter mile that is absolutely impossible to achieve for you and I and 99.99 % of all sport bike owners.  I would not under any circumstances use that type of oil. 

Lastly, mineral or synthetic?  There is no doubt that synthetics performs better in extreme warm and cold climates.  They also typically have higher film strength than mineral oils which is important with lumpy camshafts.  I know some guys that run seven seconds Pro Street type bikes at the strip and use mineral oil.  But they change oil after each event and will at the most have two miles on it.  Also, the crankshaft only rotates approximately 1,100 revolutions in a quarter mile pass and the camshafts half that.  So the load is very short in duration compared to say a similar motor at Bonneville.

To summarize, mineral or synthetic is fine for stock motor applications.  I would personally not use anything but synthetics for modified engines.  Change it at least as often as recommended by the manufacturer for stock engines, more often if modified.  Ask your engine builder what he recommends.  I would use motorcycle specific oils for motorcycle engines (unless turbo).  For what it is worth, I use Mobil 1 4T for my stock Busa and DRZ 400.  I use Motul for my ZX-10 that has a flashed ECU with a 500 RPM higher redline than stock.  My high performance NA Busa also get Motul.  Always use OEM oil filters.  That is based on my experience when working professionally as an engine builder before I started my military career and from threads on different forums where the owner felt the need to be creative and either use some fancy setup or a cheap auto part type filter that caused oil starvation and ruined engines.

Offline SEJ

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Re: Oil
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2015, 03:08:20 PM »
I normally do not participate in oil threads but since we selfishly and without regard hijacked it, I feel obligated to provide an answer.

Firstly I want to address the moronic statement that normally goes like this in oil threads: “I changed my oil with brand X and it works great for me”.  So you thought there might have been a chance that it would not work and your engine would blow up???  To the contrary, one could buy oil at the local supermarket for 69 cents a quart and only change it every 7,000 miles, twice the recommended service interval for a Hayabusa and the engine would still last 100,000 miles without any problems.  There will probably be more wear inside the engine versus one that was serviced with a high quality oil at proper intervals but even the cheapest oil sold would not damage a stock engine.

For modified engines, it is a different story.  Normally aspirated engines typically have higher redlines and more extreme cam profiles.  Film strength becomes important here and I would suggest looking at tests from independent labs.  Just be careful with how recent those tests are since oils are often reformulated even though they are sold in exactly the same bottles and under the same names.  What drives that is EPA requirements and the big oil companies also have an army of chemists and engineers with fancy PhD degrees that do nothing but try to improve the performance of their products.

Turbo motors have different requirements.  Bring your Busa to a certain individual in Canada and you will now have 600+ RWHP versus 155 stock for less than one bet at the black jack table in one of the high roller rooms here in Vegas.  With that amount of power, the loads on main and rod bearings are extreme, so diesel oils are often preferred in those motors since they are designed for that application.  Oil for turbo motors must also be resilient of very high temperatures.

You mentioned “Less than Zero” which refers to the oils viscosity.  The only reason to use that type of oil is to put up a number at the drag strip.  Brock’s business model is to put a 135 pound jockey on a sport bike with stock engine internals and lay down an ET at the quarter mile that is absolutely impossible to achieve for you and I and 99.99 % of all sport bike owners.  I would not under any circumstances use that type of oil. 

Lastly, mineral or synthetic?  There is no doubt that synthetics performs better in extreme warm and cold climates.  They also typically have higher film strength than mineral oils which is important with lumpy camshafts.  I know some guys that run seven seconds Pro Street type bikes at the strip and use mineral oil.  But they change oil after each event and will at the most have two miles on it.  Also, the crankshaft only rotates approximately 1,100 revolutions in a quarter mile pass and the camshafts half that.  So the load is very short in duration compared to say a similar motor at Bonneville.

To summarize, mineral or synthetic is fine for stock motor applications.  I would personally not use anything but synthetics for modified engines.  Change it at least as often as recommended by the manufacturer for stock engines, more often if modified.  Ask your engine builder what he recommends.  I would use motorcycle specific oils for motorcycle engines (unless turbo).  For what it is worth, I use Mobil 1 4T for my stock Busa and DRZ 400.  I use Motul for my ZX-10 that has a flashed ECU with a 500 RPM higher redline than stock.  My high performance NA Busa also get Motul.  Always use OEM oil filters.  That is based on my experience when working professionally as an engine builder before I started my military career and from threads on different forums where the owner felt the need to be creative and either use some fancy setup or a cheap auto part type filter that caused oil starvation and ruined engines.

 :thumb:
I could not have said it any better.
I'd like to add that motorcycle specific oils have high shear additives that protect them from the severe shearing forces of a motorcycle transmission, as it also doubles as transmission fluid.
222.66 MPH at the Ohio Mile
201.52 MPH in the 1/2 Mile
12 lbs. boost
01' Turbo GSX-R 1000