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Author Topic: surging problem  (Read 8232 times)

Offline TT

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surging problem
« on: July 06, 2015, 07:48:47 AM »
99 with rcc stage one  bike sometimes surges when cruzing NOT under boost, i could be cruzing along any were between 2 & 5k  and the bike will start to surge like a lean condition, a couple times it stalled at a idle it only does it once in a while, the fuel pressure is ok  , when its under boost it ok        any ideas????
alcohol is the cause and solution to all my problem,s

it burn,s when i pee

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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 03:02:40 PM »
How old is the fuel pump?  BTW, 2K is a bit low for cruising for me.  I draw the line at 3-3500. 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline TT

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 04:32:52 PM »
How old is the fuel pump?  BTW, 2K is a bit low for cruising for me.  I draw the line at 3-3500.
the fuel pump is maybe 4 to 5 yrs old but it sounds ok and according to my  fuel press gage its doing what its suppose to, i dont really cruze at 2k but it will surge at 2k
alcohol is the cause and solution to all my problem,s

it burn,s when i pee

tattoos and harley,s  both image enhancers

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 07:17:45 PM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline TT

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 12:03:59 PM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
the bikes been fine for many years ( since the turbo was installed 4 yrs give or take ) this started maybe a month ago,    why would the mapping change now??
alcohol is the cause and solution to all my problem,s

it burn,s when i pee

tattoos and harley,s  both image enhancers

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 05:57:28 PM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
the bikes been fine for many years ( since the turbo was installed 4 yrs give or take ) this started maybe a month ago,    why would the mapping change now??
The mapping would not change, I was under the impression this was a continuing problem, but if its as you say, and you are sure the pump is good, the next thing in line is the filter if your running one be sure its clean and open, then the FMU, if its the standard Begi, it may need attention??? if its one that Richard changes I doubt its a problem, you need to ck and double ck everything from tank to injectors, especialy any rubber fuel lines, I had a fuel line collapse once looked fine on the outside but you could hardly blow thru it, also the vac lines should be looked at real close, if even a small leak in the map sensor line it can cause all sorts of low speed drivability problems
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 07:13:01 PM »
Ethanol kills rubber fuel lines............over time, every time.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline piratediverjefff

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 08:15:37 PM »
Ethanol kills rubber fuel lines............over time, every time.

...maybe after 20 years,you and your Ethanol. :lol:
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day,light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 09:21:33 PM »
Ethanol kills rubber fuel lines............over time, every time.

...maybe after 20 years,you and your Ethanol. :lol:

Not quite that long, but the smaller the engine, the more prone it is to the "ethanol attack".  I hate the stuff............we do not need it to meet emissions standards............that is a lie...............all we are doing is burning diluted 'corn squeezins' thru our engines.  Cars last longer, but having been a Customer Service Minion for 6 years in a local shop here, I have seen what it can do to a Chrysler truck in 3 years.  Screws up the entire EVAP system and then gets the float in the fuel pump. 

Yer right, "me and my ethanol."  :tu:
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 10:11:08 PM »
I guess you guys wouldn't think much of mixing a little Nitro Methane with your Ethanol, leave that shit in a fuel system for a few weeks without flushing it, you will be replacing more than rubber lines, to bad we cant run that in our bikes, would not need no blower, nitrous, turbo, nothing just fill the tank and go fast for a minute or two.........forgive me guys I just miss the race car sometimes :cry:
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline piratediverjefff

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 05:12:24 AM »
 :lol:
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day,light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline turbo051k

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 07:31:38 AM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
the bikes been fine for many years ( since the turbo was installed 4 yrs give or take ) this started maybe a month ago,    why would the mapping change now??
The mapping would not change, I was under the impression this was a continuing problem, but if its as you say, and you are sure the pump is good, the next thing in line is the filter if your running one be sure its clean and open, then the FMU, if its the standard Begi, it may need attention??? if its one that Richard changes I doubt its a problem, you need to ck and double ck everything from tank to injectors, especialy any rubber fuel lines, I had a fuel line collapse once looked fine on the outside but you could hardly blow thru it, also the vac lines should be looked at real close, if even a SMALL LEAK IN THE MAP SENSOR LINE it can cause all sorts of low speed drivability problems
I propped the tank up yesterday and whilst poking around I knocked the MAP sensor line off of the tee to the TB's by mistake...bolted tank back and went to start the bike...now I have all sorts of issues ,wouldnt idle and was pig rich. Such a huge problem from such a small vaccum line lol....took me about 30mins to figure it out cause the line was buried and couldnt see it until a shined the flashlight in there. :evil:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 06:26:58 PM »
I guess you guys wouldn't think much of mixing a little Nitro Methane with your Ethanol, leave that shit in a fuel system for a few weeks without flushing it, you will be replacing more than rubber lines, to bad we cant run that in our bikes, would not need no blower, nitrous, turbo, nothing just fill the tank and go fast for a minute or two.........forgive me guys I just miss the race car sometimes :cry:

We did just that back in the 90's when Danny Johnson let me play around............20% nitro 80% pump..........on a Harley street bike...........ran faster and ran a bit hotter.  Had to change the oil immediately.  Nitro contaminated it.   
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 01:58:55 PM »
I guess you guys wouldn't think much of mixing a little Nitro Methane with your Ethanol, leave that shit in a fuel system for a few weeks without flushing it, you will be replacing more than rubber lines, to bad we cant run that in our bikes, would not need no blower, nitrous, turbo, nothing just fill the tank and go fast for a minute or two.........forgive me guys I just miss the race car sometimes :cry:

We did just that back in the 90's when Danny Johnson let me play around............20% nitro 80% pump..........on a Harley street bike...........ran faster and ran a bit hotter.  Had to change the oil immediately.  Nitro contaminated it.   
Yea Nitro don't mix well with gas, it will mix with methanol or ethanol, and poss E-85, but strait gas just makes the motor pissed :lol:
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline ANTDOG600

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 06:17:13 PM »
have a pump for sale in classifieds...... :tu:

Offline TT

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2015, 01:29:24 PM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
the bikes been fine for many years ( since the turbo was installed 4 yrs give or take ) this started maybe a month ago,    why would the mapping change now??
The mapping would not change, I was under the impression this was a continuing problem, but if its as you say, and you are sure the pump is good, the next thing in line is the filter if your running one be sure its clean and open, then the FMU, if its the standard Begi, it may need attention??? if its one that Richard changes I doubt its a problem, you need to ck and double ck everything from tank to injectors, especialy any rubber fuel lines, I had a fuel line collapse once looked fine on the outside but you could hardly blow thru it, also the vac lines should be looked at real close, if even a small leak in the map sensor line it can cause all sorts of low speed drivability problems
the fuel and vac lines get replaced every other year, the fuel filter gets replaced every year, and like i said in earlyier post the fuel press gage is reading that my pressure is ok, is it possible that there is a leak in a throttle body boot??
alcohol is the cause and solution to all my problem,s

it burn,s when i pee

tattoos and harley,s  both image enhancers

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: surging problem
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2015, 10:06:15 PM »
If you happen to have a full exhaust you can hook up on a dyno with a good A/F reader and see whats going om at the time of the surgeing, but you probably have a short "dump" off the turbo even if you have a O2 sensor or you stick the dynos sensor in the pipe it is not going to read correctly except may at WOT, because the opening of the pipe is so close to where the sniffer get its sample it thinks the systems lean when its not this is mostly a problem at lower eng speeds making it tough to get a good map, with a minimal amount of drivability problems (surgeing) or hesitation, good dyno operators that have there shit together can still get one mapped good but they know what to do, adjusting the map numbers to get good drivability and killer power, I have spent weeks making small map adjustments riding for a couple days then trying another adjustment now this is nothing big just a couple number here or there to get the minor stumble, surge, lean spot, rich spot or whatever straitened up
the bikes been fine for many years ( since the turbo was installed 4 yrs give or take ) this started maybe a month ago,    why would the mapping change now??
The mapping would not change, I was under the impression this was a continuing problem, but if its as you say, and you are sure the pump is good, the next thing in line is the filter if your running one be sure its clean and open, then the FMU, if its the standard Begi, it may need attention??? if its one that Richard changes I doubt its a problem, you need to ck and double ck everything from tank to injectors, especialy any rubber fuel lines, I had a fuel line collapse once looked fine on the outside but you could hardly blow thru it, also the vac lines should be looked at real close, if even a small leak in the map sensor line it can cause all sorts of low speed drivability problems
the fuel and vac lines get replaced every other year, the fuel filter gets replaced every year, and like i said in earlyier post the fuel press gage is reading that my pressure is ok, is it possible that there is a leak in a throttle body boot??
Its a pain in the ass but something you may try is put in a fresh set of plugs and run the bike for a bit shut it off and pull the plugs, basicly to see if one cly is running hotter or cooler that the others, if hotter the plug will be cleaner or lighter in color, if cooler it will be dark or black in color, if all plugs are the same then it is probably not something isolated to one cly, one other possible thing is the map sensor itself, not sure how you could ck it as the volts very with vacume, you may want to ck on a replacement, remember the map sensor controls most of the fuel under 10% throttle not the ECU map, at least that what I have been told and the way the bike react to tuning it would make sense
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does