Will Bill Warner's speeds be beat???????????????

[firemanjim]

I agree with Fred and Larry. We have 2-3 sets of bodywork sitting in the rafters because all the off the shelf stuff has issues and was not really designed for LSR speeds we are seeing. Greg has gone back to the drawing board and starting from scratch.
Joe and Ralph's stuff is nice, never really had a good look at the Guppy.

[speedduck]

IWe have 2-3 sets of bodywork sitting in the rafters because all the off the shelf stuff has issues and was not really designed for LSR speeds we are seeing.

We have really big issues even with n/a bike using off the shelf set, why is this ? I had an impression the manufacturer had done research and testing before putting the kit on sale, i guess not 

[Oz Booster]

I think some are stylised versions of a std bodywork, and not realy tested
others good in theory but in practice with different bikes having different COG  and rider shapes and weights not so good
my pet dislike is lack of symmetry

add to the list of good bodywork Brett De Stoop, Tom Mellor , Mel Hewett
IMO Bretts is up there with Ralph

then when you get the body shape right and your bike goes real fast its more succeptable to sidewind

[fvance]

I agree that Brett's is up there. The other two I am not familiar with, or dont remember. CRS the more surface area the more sensitive to wind., definitely. The funny thing, not, about the big bodyworks reaction to sidewinds is you just get pushed over. With stockish bodywork it leans over and you are much more aware of what is happening.

[Ken 12r]

Thinking about streamlining a number of fast cars with very smooth shapes had various fins and additions to the bodywork because of stability issues at speed.

[2fast4u2c]

Many will try, only 1 will succeed.  Sooner or later, everything will come together to achieve the quest for the breaking of both Bills most awesome record of 311 in the 1.5 mile and the 300 in 1 mile record.  I am but 1 contender with a dream.  Those of us trying to achieve our goals appreciate everyone's love of this sport.  Just being a small part of the quest keeps me happy and sane.  I'm a long shot contender, Don and his team are the favorites.  But maybe, just maybe the kid from Toledo could get lucky.  The fact alone that we try, that we compete, that we love our sport so much is what gives me reason to try again and again.  It took me 4 years to break the Nitrous record and hold it for 9 years.  So very blessed to have had that honor.  Just to be mentioned in the same sentence as Bill Warner is an honor.  Thanks for everyone's support of our sport.  Hope to see many of you next year.  Now where did I place that wrench???

[fvance]

Guy, have you thought about putting your bike in a wind tunnel?

[2fast4u2c]

the bodywork has already been in the tunnel in So. Cal. when developed by Kent Riches at AirTech Streamlining.  I would love to take it to the A2 tunnel if I could ever get free time and additional resources to afford it.

[knecum]

It should be part of the budget. If you intend  to go really fast it's actually  a must do!!. Say 3 hrs at 500, you could learn whether it's safe enough for your intended  speed goals.  You actually  have to do it, I insist.  Listen to your peers if your serious about it. I would say after 250 it gets very serious.

[entropy]

the bodywork has already been in the tunnel in So. Cal. when developed by Kent Riches at AirTech Streamlining. I would love to take it to the A2 tunnel if I could ever get free time and additional resources to afford it.

Guy,
remember the discussion we had about data logging/analysis??
IMO, Wind tunnel work is even more important; life & death.
GET AN EXPERT TO PLAN & MANAGE the WORK AND JUST DO IT, NOT OPTIONAL.
I say this as your friend,
Karl

[2fast4u2c]

Steve and Karl,

Thank you so much for caring about me and my program.  I am in total agreement with both of your assessments. But my original statement stands.  When time and resources permits.  I'm well aware of the importance and will carry out tunnel testing when time and resources permits.  There is NO budget when you build and race these things.  You spend what you have to spend when you can spend it.  You are under the mistaken premise that I have a money tree in my backyard and between my day job (60hr/wk), Tiger Racing products and Tiger Holster Systems, and the fact that I am only home on the weekends, I have a vast amount of time.
 My weekends, (besides picking up the dog shit, mowing the lawns, do my company paperwork, dealing with both my web businesses, seeing my Mom at assisted living, taking my wife out for a date, going to church, and maybe, just maybe I can get a couple hours in the Tiger Racing garage), are not free and clear.  My vacation time is divided between races and family so tunnel time will happen when I can get it to happen.
I know your hearts are in the right places and you care for my safety, but so do I.  So take a breather guys, I'm a long way from 250 let alone faster.  The tunnel will happen, just not this year, maybe in the spring or later, but it will happen.

Guy

[speedduck]

I'm a long way from 250 let alone faster.  The tunnel will happen, just not this year, maybe in the spring or later, but it will happen.

Guy

 How fast you been so far testing the bike ? I`m interested in how the brakes work when speeds going up.

[2fast4u2c]

The roller bearing hydraulic Beringer Brakes are the smoothest I have ever run.  On my 187 naked run I purposely tried an emergency stop and slowed so smoothly and quickly I had to get back on it just to get to the short shutdown turnout.

[knecum]

Well to go the speeds you built it for requires you to eat, sleep and shit thinking of every aspect of what's going to go down chasing the 300mph goal. So you have handling issues already as did Don, the bodywork doesn't like wind. I'm aware of what that feels like as we had handling issues with one of our bikes at 240ish. So I know if it was me, I wouldn't even attempt to ride it again until wind tunnel testing was completed. Instead of going to the next meet, go to the tunnel. It will be a very long time for anyone to go 300 in a mile, just my opinion. You'll see!!

[2fast4u2c]

I know you're completely right Steve.  Don and I have about 15 square feet of sail to contend with. All the wind tunnel testing in the world isn't going to change that if we continue to use what we have.  The one small advantage I have is that the "Flying Tiger" just received another full scanning into CFD here in Ann Arbor, Mi
Tunnel testing isn't the only way to realize bodywork issues.  CFD analysis is even more telling because you can change the conditions and position of all air flow patterns in software to see a completed outcome.  If the front fender turns 1" to the left or right, what's going to happen??  If my shoulders peek 2inches higher, what's going to happen??  Where will the air re-attach itself to the rear of the bodywork from over my helmet?  How much of a vortice will my rear wheel produce in front of the tire under the belly pan without covering louvers?
I want badly to also take it to the tunnel for additional analysis besides CFD, it only makes sense.  And I do eat, sleep and shit thinking about issues with my bike from all fronts, not just bodywork. The CFD analysis showed me I had the front of the belly pan turned caddy whompis about 1/4" to the starboard side which in turn caused the nose of the body work to be pointed 1/4" in the wrong direction.  We fixed that.  And unless you have your bodywork jigged when installing, a tunnel wouldn't tell you this.  I now use a jig to mount the belly pan which is the centerpiece for installing the rest of my bodywork.

So after all this rhetoric, I do PLAN on tunnel testing because it needs to be done.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate your wanting me to be safe and successful.  I used to share everything I did with this bike, but it seems that at every turn, I'm just not doing it right.  Maybe so, but there is no one to blame for anything in my program but me.  Not my sponsors, friends in the biz or fellow racers.  But when I do go fast or not (however fast that may be), it will be because of my decisions and no blame or fame on anyone else's part. 

[entropy]

Steve and Karl,
... There is NO budget when you build and race these things...
Guy,

My friend Guy,
You are
ABSOLUTELY...
POSITIVELY...
UNEQUIVOCALLY...
WRONG

Everyone is ALWAYS working under a budget whether they want to think about it or not.

project mgmt 101
1. you have a goal, state it as specifically as you can - write it down,
2. you know you are gonna have to spend money for stuff, but you have constraints, add it up, be as specific as you can - write it down,
3. you know you want to do this project in some time frame, you have time constraints - write your est completion date
4. iterate on 1, 2, 3 until technical hurdles, cost, time are doable for you.

Now you have a written objective, budget, schedule = Project Plan.
Iterate on the plan as stuff changes, maybe you win the lottery, maybe you have to delay a year, whatever
Wasn't that easy?

I did oil field project management for a long time and it alway makes me grin when people are doing stuff and say they have no budget
karl

oh, almost forgot # 1 = BE SAFE

[Got-Busa?]

My racing budget just went down with three kids... ....my biggest hurdle is TIME!  Days seem to go faster and faster...

[2fast4u2c]

Karl, I should have "No FIXED budget". It cost what it cost. But if you wish to donate huge sums of money to my efforts, I wouldn't turn it down.

Always good to banter with you my friend.

Guy

[gixxerfixxer]

I overspent for years but since kids I set a budget and take the family as a family trip. We all enjoy the atmosphere of racing

I have been constant upgrading and changing things.

I will never attempt the 300mph but will take my 750 and 1000 to their potentials, Well someday I hope.

Godspeed all....

[RansomT]

Since we are on the subject, I'm going to throw the question/observation out there just to try and learn.

What procedure can tell you the effects of wind on your body work when the wind is coming from different directions as you travel down the track?  I've seen wind tunnel test and looked at CFD data, but can they really give you a sense of what happens when wind gust hits the bike at different angles within a single run?

[GSXRTURBO1]

Since we are on the subject, I'm going to throw the question/observation out there just to try and learn.

What procedure can tell you the effects of wind on your body work when the wind is coming from different directions as you travel down the track?  I've seen wind tunnel test and looked at CFD data, but can they really give you a sense of what happens when wind gust hits the bike at different angles within a single run?

Wow, that's a great question 

[2fast4u2c]

No. But they help get you closer. CFD is virtual. Wind Tunnel is symmetric. There's not much to do what you ask. But having now been down the track with terrible side winds I can tell you how much my bodywork acted in the wind and it was no fun.

[firemanjim]

"But having now been down the track with terrible side winds I can tell you how much bodywork acted and it was no fun. "
Went down track at Mojave on near stock Busa body and could have dragged my knee like a roadracer--going straight---

[Ghost-Geezer]

311 is from my perspective, a 70% chance of getting your life over quick.  Bill was the best, and even he did not survive.  It makes me worried someone else might end up like Bill............and for what?  A trophy, your 15 minutes of fame?  I just cannot get my mind around it.  If I ever go 311, it will be in an aircraft.  A jet.  The mark he set is just too dang high...............do not attempt to do it if you love your family, IMO.

[2fast4u2c]

311 is from my perspective, a 70% chance of getting your life over quick.  Bill was the best, and even he did not survive.  It makes me worried someone else might end up like Bill............and for what?  A trophy, your 15 minutes of fame?  I just cannot get my mind around it.  If I ever go 311, it will be in an aircraft.  A jet.  The mark he set is just too dang high...............do not attempt to do it if you love your family, IMO.

Your worries are properly founded on history.  Bill did die from this sport as have others who went much slower.  I agree you are flirting with death more so at higher speeds and for what? A trophy, a certificate, bragging rights??
YES, for all of those and the fact that you did it and succeeded.  Why do humans do extraordinary things in many peoples mind that are stupid?  For me, it's the challenge.  How can I succeed where others fail?  How can I even think to walk in the shoes of the speed greats like a Bill Warner or a Shane Stubbs, John Noonan or a Don Hass?  There are many others who have gone faster than me and this conversation happened when motorcycle riders were knocking on the door of 200mph, 250mph and now 300mph.  When does it stop?  Don't know.
As much as I appreciate the concern many have for our well being (those of us who dare to go faster) I won't let those fears stop me from attempting to break that ceiling.  Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane is crazy too but it doesn't stop those from doing it anyways.  Riding a motorcycle on todays highways with people texting and not watching where they are going scare me more.  I will just have to go with the fact that I'm a bit brain dead and haven't yet seen God on one of my runs. But until I do, I will just keep at it until I meet my goal or become unable to continue with the sport that I love so much.

Guy