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Author Topic: fogging the airbox  (Read 4487 times)

Offline nineguy

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fogging the airbox
« on: October 15, 2015, 10:37:17 AM »
How long have some of you been fogging with a single in the air box or dual in the ram air? Please list any issues

Offline GSXRTURBO1

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »
I think most are well past that type of setup, a spraybar setup is superior wet or dry
Thomas

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2015, 07:47:26 PM »
Talk to me about what I would need to do for a small "dry shot" if I wanted a tad more "zip"...........or could I even do it with my bike without stressing it out or without requiring a master mechanic to install it.  What is involved?.

Thanks,

Dave

P.S. I want it reasonably easy to do on my lift and "fogging the airbox" sounds easier to me than installing a rail system of some sort.   
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 07:49:38 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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Offline Busashot

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 06:45:24 PM »
From my experience, spray bars are very nice for a harder more precise hit. You can feel the difference.When using the fogging method IMHO is best with 2 nozzles in or near the ram-air tubes to fill the airbox sooner and fill it fuller. The hit is still slower than a bar which can be a benefit when launching with it but depends on your bike setup as we all know.

I use a 65hp shot but have tried a 100hp shot with S2000 injectors and ECU Editor triggering the second map. I bought the cheap Cold Fusion kit along with a few Dynotune nitrous components. I used the funnel jets and for small shots this kit has been reliable for me except for when vibration from the bike cause the nut that holds the solenoid together to fall off at the strip. Solenoids don't work well when the body separates.  :hys:


« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 07:41:22 PM by Busashot »

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 09:46:03 PM »
From my experience, spray bars are very nice for a harder more precise hit. You can feel the difference.When using the fogging method IMHO is best with 2 nozzles in or near the ram-air tubes to fill the airbox sooner and fill it fuller. The hit is still slower than a bar which can be a benefit when launching with it but depends on your bike setup as we all know.

I use a 65hp shot but have tried a 100hp shot with S2000 injectors and ECU Editor triggering the second map. I bought the cheap Cold Fusion kit along with a few Dynotune nitrous components. I used the funnel jets and for small shots this kit has been reliable for me except for when vibration from the bike cause the nut that holds the solenoid together to fall off at the strip. Solenoids don't work well when the body separates.  :hys:




On second thought, I just might let Rodney set me up with a little dry shot, with a rail, nothing radical, like a 20 shot, if possible...........that might be a good little project to give him in the dead of winter this year.  Hell, I'll completely defer to him............any way he wants.   :tu:

After all, it is my duty to spend at least a portion of the kid's inheritance money............yes!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:49:25 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online RansomT

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2015, 09:18:56 AM »
O.K. guys and gals, here we go ..... (assuming you have the supporting engine, transmission, fuel system modifications)

No matter what, you must tune for the shot. Also, I recommend anything over a 40 HP you need to be using an appropriate race fuel (or E85).  Anything over 80 HP, race fuel and timing control a must.

small shots (~60 HP or less on a Busa) works very well fogging the box if setup correctly.  Fog in the ram tubes (both sides) and blow though a high flow air filter.  The downside of this setup is on longer runs the air filter can ice up and the bike goes über rich.  Upside is they are easier to install and normally make more HP than they are jetted for.

Spray bars are not what they are all cracked up to be. Some of the better known bars have a huge design flaw, they spray uneven and dump most of the spray into #1 cylinder.  Not only does the engine run unbalanced, but the lean on a cylinder or two and rich on the others.  I see this all the time on the dyno. eg, a 100 HP shot makes 87 HP on the dyno. The only reason they are around is the bikes "survive" a quick 1/4 mile pass most of the time. 


I personally use the stuff from WON, I know there has been a lot of testing to get the systems balanced.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:54:15 AM by RansomT »
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 10:41:37 AM »
How about these?  Hook 'em up to your emergency flasher button and hit the button and they can watch you pull away with yer emergency lights on.................that also makes it legal to speed...........yer on yer way to an emergency..........."I wuz about to crap my drawers Trooper, had to get to a bathroom, quick............see, I've got this condition called Crohn's disease"............and so on.   :hys: :hys: :hys:


Just lookin' for a 25-30 shot just for 5th and 6th in a roll on shootout with a ZX 14.  ( :wink: 8))
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 10:49:02 AM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online RansomT

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2015, 01:31:26 PM »
 :D.    That's some of WON components.  Looks good to me.   However, I wouldn't do a 30 HP shot .... At least a 42-45
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Offline Busashot

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 02:16:50 PM »
I agree it is not worth it to do only a 20-30shot. 40-50hp shot. I tuned mine to come on from an electric shifter going into second gear via ECU Editor so the 2nd gear map kicks in. I also tune rich at the top of the RPM band in 1st gear such as the last 300rpms so that when the nitrous hits there isn't that brief moment of leaness when the nitrous hits. Again more noticeable with a spray bar. When doing the 1/4 mile dance, I use a filter delete plate. On the street I usually never run it for more than 8 seconds and I never noticed any changes from my WB on spray bar.

I ran 50hp with pump gas all the time. But I am at 5300' altitude so I may get away with it. The 2nd map incorporates the timing to retard back to stock settings where my primary map has the typical 4-5' advance. On the 65hp shot I retard another 2 degrees and run a mix of 108 unleaded race fuel with pump fuel.

I can't say I noticed any issues with a spray bar but since I am SWB, I decided to quit using it as I felt the fogging was easier to handle. When we first did a spray bar, it was homemade by us and with a jet rated for 75hp, we actually saw 83hp gain. This was on a 2002 ZX12R. The tubes were about 1/4" down in the stacks so we never experienced one cylinder getting more than another. This bike made 285hp way back when.

On a side note: At one time, I also used 2 kits at the same time. One hidden with a 20hp shot using the old RiceYa under box plate then the 2 jets for the remainder 30hp near the ram-air tubes as shown in the previous pics. Only did this for sneaky side bets. It worked out for me many times.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 07:17:54 PM »
You have my brain spinning, now!  OK, a 40-50 shot is fine with me.........how big a bottle can ya put in the hump?  2.5 lbs? .017 jetting?.  I dunno.
 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 07:26:59 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Busashot

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 07:53:47 PM »
A 2lb will fit barely without much trouble. I made a custom trunk flat to give me some additional room. I was able to do a 2.5lb bottle by using a side connect valve as the bottle is a little longer along with modding the flat foor for more room. I made custom brackets to mount it. Pretty darn tight especially with some of my additional electronics.

I used 2 .024" jets to get 50hp+. If you are wanting to run 1 jet you will need it to be like .032" for 40hp.

I would take pics but the bike is completely apart.


Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2015, 08:08:26 PM »
A 2lb will fit barely without much trouble. I made a custom trunk flat to give me some additional room. I was able to do a 2.5lb bottle by using a side connect valve as the bottle is a little longer along with modding the flat foor for more room. I made custom brackets to mount it. Pretty darn tight especially with some of my additional electronics.

I used 2 .024" jets to get 50hp+. If you are wanting to run 1 jet you will need it to be like .032" for 40hp.

I would take pics but the bike is completely apart.

No, you have drawn a verbal picture that is more than sufficient.  What I will ask Rodney to do for me this winter (we are doing a couple of smaller things) is install a 2-2.5 lb bottle in the hump and get me a 40 or 50 shot, with the best stuff he can find, whatever he thinks best for me and the bike.  We can just use the "mode" switch on the right bar to activate it since the ECU is now now permanently in max mode.  So it is essentially useless, except for using it as "the button for the shot."Perfect location to activate, with the throttle WFO in 5th and WHAM......50 more HP.  Nice.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 11:35:06 AM »
Thank you for your knowledge and input, Ransom T and Busashot, it is very much appreciated.  Bike pulls very well now in 1-3 but at the top of 4th and all of 5th and 6th the extra punch would be very fun indeed, I would think............. :mrgreen:

What would be the lowest practical RPMs you could bring in a 50 shot of Nitrous without stressing out parts in 4th thru 6th?  Or does it vary in each gear?
By parts, I am including the fuggin' chain. My chain is a non-O-ring EK 530DR2 and I lube it every 100-125 miles with the good synthetic stuff.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 03:01:01 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Busashot

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2015, 12:08:29 AM »
Well I've hit 50hp shot in 2nd gear up. Not too bad of a hit IMHO. I also have hit the 20hp shot straight out of the hole without issue. Again fogging is a little more forgiving on how fast it hits (filling up the airbox).

Big difference for me though is I am at 5300' altitude so the power up here to begin with is about 18% lower than most near sea level roads.

You really can't go wrong being attentive to regular maintenance......

Offline Gixx1300R

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2015, 11:40:59 AM »
https://vimeo.com/116385009


A true Fan spray nozzle
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 11:46:14 AM by Gixx1300R »
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Offline Gixx1300R

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2015, 11:48:50 AM »
War is nothing more than Old Men talking while Young men die

Offline ZMBKLR

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 08:14:06 PM »
I RAN A RICEYA PLATE WITH A 60 SHOT FOR A LONG TIME. MY BUDDY SMYT PUT OVER 200LBS OF NITROUS THROUGH A STOCK MOTOR 60HP AT A TIME.

ALL ON PUMP GAS WITH A SPLASH OF THE GOOD STUFF AND A PROPER TUNE.

Offline Jeremyg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2016, 02:28:04 PM »
did you set up the nitrous yet? I want to do the same once my bike is running good and i am consistent at the track.

Offline Red

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2016, 08:03:09 PM »


Did you set up the nitrous yet?

I want to do the same once my bike is running good and i am consistent at the track.


A kitted bike is FUN at the drag strip ~ we sprayed across the air temp sensor .  .  .

1999 Prostar West Super Gas Champion !
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Offline Jeremygg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2016, 10:02:28 PM »


Did you set up the nitrous yet?

I want to do the same once my bike is running good and i am consistent at the track.


A kitted bike is FUN at the drag strip ~ we sprayed across the air temp sensor .  .  .



Whats kitted bike mean?

Offline turbo051k

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 08:49:11 AM »


Did you set up the nitrous yet?

I want to do the same once my bike is running good and i am consistent at the track.


A kitted bike is FUN at the drag strip ~ we sprayed across the air temp sensor .  .  .



Whats kitted bike mean?
Nitrous kit :tu:
'97 DS-80
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'09 Busa
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Offline Red

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2016, 08:10:23 PM »
What he said ~^~ a good nitrous kit .  .  .

1999 Prostar West Super Gas Champion !
2000 NMRA / Prostar Pro E/T runner up.
2001, 2002, & 2003 NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2004 #3, 2005, & 2006 NMRA Pro E/T runner up.
2007 Pro. St. Legal #6, NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2008 MDRA Super Streetbike Champion !

Offline Jeremyg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2016, 09:25:55 PM »


Did you set up the nitrous yet?

I want to do the same once my bike is running good and i am consistent at the track.


A kitted bike is FUN at the drag strip ~ we sprayed across the air temp sensor .  .  .

so you used that for the added fuel needed?
how much did you spray?



Offline Jeremyg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2016, 09:30:16 PM »
O.K. guys and gals, here we go ..... (assuming you have the supporting engine, transmission, fuel system modifications)

No matter what, you must tune for the shot. Also, I recommend anything over a 40 HP you need to be using an appropriate race fuel (or E85).  Anything over 80 HP, race fuel and timing control a must.

small shots (~60 HP or less on a Busa) works very well fogging the box if setup correctly.  Fog in the ram tubes (both sides) and blow though a high flow air filter.  The downside of this setup is on longer runs the air filter can ice up and the bike goes über rich.  Upside is they are easier to install and normally make more HP than they are jetted for.

so i want to add a 40 shot to my bike. its a gen 1 stock with ported head and cams. Should I just fog the airbox?

Spray bars are not what they are all cracked up to be. Some of the better known bars have a huge design flaw, they spray uneven and dump most of the spray into #1 cylinder.  Not only does the engine run unbalanced, but the lean on a cylinder or two and rich on the others.  I see this all the time on the dyno. eg, a 100 HP shot makes 87 HP on the dyno. The only reason they are around is the bikes "survive" a quick 1/4 mile pass most of the time. 


I personally use the stuff from WON, I know there has been a lot of testing to get the systems balanced.

Offline Red

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 12:32:04 PM »
If you're not that familiar with nitrous oxide ~ don't be surprised when you start breaking things .  .  .

1999 Prostar West Super Gas Champion !
2000 NMRA / Prostar Pro E/T runner up.
2001, 2002, & 2003 NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2004 #3, 2005, & 2006 NMRA Pro E/T runner up.
2007 Pro. St. Legal #6, NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2008 MDRA Super Streetbike Champion !

Offline Jeremygg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 01:04:55 PM »
Why do you day that Red?

Offline Red

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 08:48:13 PM »

Why do you say that Red?


A little almost always leads to a lot .  .  .

1999 Prostar West Super Gas Champion !
2000 NMRA / Prostar Pro E/T runner up.
2001, 2002, & 2003 NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2004 #3, 2005, & 2006 NMRA Pro E/T runner up.
2007 Pro. St. Legal #6, NMRA Pro E/T Champion !
2008 MDRA Super Streetbike Champion !

Offline Jeremygg1283

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Re: fogging the airbox
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 09:08:56 PM »
I am having micheal over at sae outlaw performance is setting up my ecu to the amount of nitrous im gonna use. Then have two different maps one for nitrous and one for n/a. Adding more nitrous if you know your motor cant handle it is stupid.