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Author Topic: Output shaft  (Read 14591 times)

Offline speedduck

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Output shaft
« on: December 23, 2015, 12:12:12 PM »
 I had lots of trouble with gearbox (busa) this season and only thing which didn`t break was the output shaft. I measured it now and it was a little off, but not much, dial indicator was showing 0.0012" , and i think it`s acceptable, the bearing can be the cause, or something. It was resting in the case half on it`s bearings.
But measured at the point shown in red in the picture it was 0.005" off, blue markings show where it was less.
What am i missing here, how can it be that much next to the bearing and much less next to that ? Even the narrow step very next to bearing is almost perfectly in center.
The red marked area is not worn, its still round.
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Offline clearblue

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2015, 11:51:50 PM »
If you need a good stock one it's your just sitting in a box , But while it's out maybe you should put in a HD Billet one
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 09:47:09 AM »
 I have a replacement shaft, but i wanted opinions about the measurements, if i did understood it wrong.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 10:16:15 AM »
I would replace it and use ceramic bearings when reassembly was done with the new gears.  Dave @ Worldwide Ceramics can help with the bearings.
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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 12:43:33 PM »
Is it possible that you got one that was just that much out of spec to begin with?
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 01:18:12 PM »
Quote from: ADMIN on December 27, 2015, 12:43:33 PM
Is it possible that you got one that was just that much out of spec to begin with?

 That is my guess, i just didn`t want to say it before getting more advice.
I should`ve measured it before installing, but i think it must have been like this already, otherwise the out of spec shape would be different,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRDHjD7wUg
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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 01:31:07 PM »
:lmao:
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 12:36:26 AM »
Quote from: ADMIN on December 27, 2015, 12:43:33 PM
Is it possible that you got one that was just that much out of spec to begin with?
iF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HAVE IT GROUND TO SPEC.  Why play?
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 12:39:15 AM »
Quote from: ADMIN on December 27, 2015, 01:31:07 PM
:lmao:

"You laughtin'?  My mule, he don'tlike you laughin'. he gets the crazy idea your're laughin at him.  But, if you apologize, like I know your're going to..........."

I just might convince him you did not meant it. 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 12:41:01 AM by Ghost-Geezer »
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2015, 04:26:41 AM »
Quote from: Ghost-Geezer on December 28, 2015, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: ADMIN on December 27, 2015, 12:43:33 PM
Is it possible that you got one that was just that much out of spec to begin with?
iF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HAVE IT GROUND TO SPEC.  Why play?

No playing here. This is about opinions and if i got it wrong somehow.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2015, 11:02:20 AM »
It just seems to me that 5 thousandths seems a bit off.  I could live with 1.2 thou, but not 5 I think.......
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2015, 11:59:30 AM »
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 12:13:25 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 02:54:02 AM »
 I think some guys have recognized my output shaft brand and don`t want to comment on this  :)
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2015, 10:09:01 PM »
Whatever do ya mean?
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"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 06:57:18 AM »
 Meaning that if somebody`s using the products of the company who made this output shaft, they don`t want to tell anything against it, and it`s ok.
I have to say  that it`s very good quality otherwise, it`s the only part left undamaged when other parts fell apart around it. And i was ready to order more parts from the same manufacturer but they don`t answer any emails and no-one seems to bother to help, so i`m buying the whole gearbox from other manufacturer, they have given me lots of advice to choose the right combo for my needs.
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 10:13:08 AM »
You may want to consider that one of your other failures bent the shaft...
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 11:33:02 AM »
Quote from: Stainless1 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
You may want to consider that one of your other failures bent the shaft...

That was the question about at the first place, if somebody would explain if it was possible to have such damage, or if it was already like that,


I am more than willing to accept it was bent, or whatever happened to it, when i broke the gearbox, but just need to know how it could happen, to prevent it in the future.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 11:36:47 AM by speedduck »
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2016, 12:02:31 PM »
Did you center it on vee blocks on the oute r blue marked surfaces and the red is .005" out?  If not, which surfaces die you support the shaft while measuring?    I would think centering should be on the large bearing inner journal and the right side bearing journal.
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2016, 12:08:07 PM »
Disregard my previous post. After re-reading I now understand how you measured.

So the sleeve over the spline is true as is the rest of the shaft with only the red area out?  I don't think the red area is used for anything. That area could be finished at a previous step and the shaft no longer is held concentric for the finishing operations.
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2016, 02:42:45 PM »
I am not made of money and technically I cannot hold a candle to any of you builders, however, if I had a tranny come apart, I would automatically NOT reuse the shaft it came apart around.  365 bucks (the cost of a new shaft) is one dollar a day for one year.  What is your peace of mind worth wondering whether or not you will have another failure?   That would be my main motivation and consideration.  But, like I said, I don't know squat compared to you mens.
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"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2016, 07:21:25 PM »
Quote from: speedduck on January 01, 2016, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: Stainless1 on January 01, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
You may want to consider that one of your other failures bent the shaft...

....

I am more than willing to accept it was bent, or whatever happened to it, when i broke the gearbox, but just need to know how it could happen, to prevent it in the future.

If you run chunks through the trans between gears something must give somewhere or lock up... I presume the cases survived uncracked (look closely)...
Unfortunately the only way to prevent transmission failures is give up racing or half your HP  :hys:
Yea, that's what I thought.... neither is a good alternative... Good Luck with the next one.

Hey, if you are going to throw it away, my trash can is available.  :mrgreen:  I have one going in a motor in the next month or so... I can measure my new one when I get my motor apart.  PM me if you want me to look.
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Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2016, 02:37:43 AM »
Quote from: sportbikeryder on January 01, 2016, 12:08:07 PM
Disregard my previous post. After re-reading I now understand how you measured.

So the sleeve over the spline is true as is the rest of the shaft with only the red area out?  I don't think the red area is used for anything. That area could be finished at a previous step and the shaft no longer is held concentric for the finishing operations.

Yes, the blue areas are fine, using the stock roller bearings when measuring can make the shaft move just a little, compared to bushings.
Red area is where the 2nd gear and its bearing sits, it is partly over the spline in this design.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2016, 08:14:13 AM »
Is not 2nd gear the gear that gave trouble on many of the Gen 1's after a period of time?
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"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline speedduck

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2016, 10:46:17 AM »
Here is stock output shaft in front for comparison, it has the 2nd gear and bushing going in, supposed to sit next to bearing. You can see the machined area for the bushing is much wider in the stock shaft.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Output shaft
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2016, 07:35:01 PM »
Is it my imagination/optical illusion or is the shaft in front longer than the one in the back?  :?
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"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."
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