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Author Topic: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!  (Read 4945 times)

Offline schrader13

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Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« on: January 12, 2016, 07:34:54 PM »
Looking for some helpful info on
Snow flake
2 stage snow flake
Lock up
Etc......
2005 500hp + turbo busa
2000 nos busa
2003 texas chopper
67 big block blown big tire camaro
98 c5 corvette
nasty 686 raptor

Offline MICHAEL MATHEWS

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 08:18:10 PM »
What are you using it for?LSR,drag,street?

Offline schrader13

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 08:49:36 PM »
Drag,and alittle street,
2005 500hp + turbo busa
2000 nos busa
2003 texas chopper
67 big block blown big tire camaro
98 c5 corvette
nasty 686 raptor

Offline schrader13

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 04:56:31 PM »
What is needed to run a snow flake?
2005 500hp + turbo busa
2000 nos busa
2003 texas chopper
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98 c5 corvette
nasty 686 raptor

Online Nosgsx1300

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 03:37:34 AM »
snow flake will not work on the street ....well

a single stage lockup has been on mine for about 10,000 miles
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2011 Loring 204.88mph "naked"
2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Offline schrader13

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 05:33:54 AM »
snow flake will not work on the street ....well

a single stage lockup has been on mine for about 10,000 miles

Explain please
2005 500hp + turbo busa
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2003 texas chopper
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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 07:21:34 AM »
snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:
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2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Offline blt1

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 09:19:30 AM »
MTC has a nice write up that may help you decide what would be best for you.
http://www.mtceng.com/index.php/technical-information/7-clutch-differences
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 10:38:19 AM »
We are installing an MTC multi-stage lock-up on my turbo build this time with an air shifter.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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Offline schrader13

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 05:47:45 PM »
snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:

No not even close!
2005 500hp + turbo busa
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 10:32:07 PM »
The "snowflake" I know of is sold by Brock and ELIMINATES the "slipper/back torque feature".
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 03:55:48 AM »
Please explain.   

snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:

No not even close!

I have googled it a bunch of times, as far as I can tell a snowflake is just another brand of single or multi stage "gen one" (inner basket driven)lockup
my knowledge of lockups and everyone please correct me WHERE I am wrong

a Gen 1 style single stage lockup works fine on the street,
a gen 1 multi stage lockup is not as good for street use,,,,because  setup to 60' there would be "excessive" slip at a stoplight
A gen II lockup is driven off the outter clutch basket and once again "setup to 60'" there would be excessive slip at stoplights

Let the flaming begin    :hys:
RCC GT4088R
2011 Loring 204.88mph "naked"
2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Offline piratediverjefff

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 05:00:36 AM »
Please explain.   

snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:

No not even close!

I have googled it a bunch of times, as far as I can tell a snowflake is just another brand of single or multi stage "gen one" (inner basket driven)lockup
my knowledge of lockups and everyone please correct me WHERE I am wrong

a Gen 1 style single stage lockup works fine on the street,
a gen 1 multi stage lockup is not as good for street use,,,,because  setup to 60' there would be "excessive" slip at a stoplight
A gen II lockup is driven off the outter clutch basket and once again "setup to 60'" there would be excessive slip at stoplights

Let the flaming begin    :hys:


This is all I could come up with;

http://exoticycle.com/ecom/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4
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Offline turbo051k

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 06:16:34 AM »
Please explain.   

snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:

No not even close!

I have googled it a bunch of times, as far as I can tell a snowflake is just another brand of single or multi stage "gen one" (inner basket driven)lockup
my knowledge of lockups and everyone please correct me WHERE I am wrong

a Gen 1 style single stage lockup works fine on the street,
a gen 1 multi stage lockup is not as good for street use,,,,because  setup to 60' there would be "excessive" slip at a stoplight
A gen II lockup is driven off the outter clutch basket and once again "setup to 60'" there would be excessive slip at stoplights

Let the flaming begin    :hys:
Gen1 multi stage will slip at the predetermined rpm depending on springs used. If you have the multi stage set up for the drag strip and the springs are set up to slip at 7500(that would be the predetermined launch rpm in this example)the clutch will now slip at the rpm while cruising around on the street. So if you are in 2nd and decide to roll on the throttle from 4000 rpm the bike will accelerate normally but.once you hit 7500 the clutch is gonna start to slip and you have to ride through it. This wears out the clutch plates pretty quickly if you street ride regularly. I have my MTC multi stage set up to lock centrifugally as I havent brought my Gen1 turbo to the track yet and just street ride it.
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Online Nosgsx1300

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 07:57:47 AM »
Please explain.   

snowflakes are a form of slider arnt they?     
If so...mini bike style engagement from a red light  :mrgreen:

No not even close!

I have googled it a bunch of times, as far as I can tell a snowflake is just another brand of single or multi stage "gen one" (inner basket driven)lockup
my knowledge of lockups and everyone please correct me WHERE I am wrong

a Gen 1 style single stage lockup works fine on the street,
a gen 1 multi stage lockup is not as good for street use,,,,because  setup to 60' there would be "excessive" slip at a stoplight
A gen II lockup is driven off the outter clutch basket and once again "setup to 60'" there would be excessive slip at stoplights

Let the flaming begin    :hys:


This is all I could come up with;

http://exoticycle.com/ecom/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4

those are "just gen I lockups"  unless I am missing something

turbo 1k   I thought on a multi stage the clutch would slip "untill" the weights overcame the springs.   so you would punch it at 4k and the rpm would shoot up to the 7,500 and hang there untill the bike speed came up to whatever 7,500 rpm is in first then it would lock....
am I wrong?
RCC GT4088R
2011 Loring 204.88mph "naked"
2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Online Dillon

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2016, 11:43:19 AM »
I thought "snowflake" was just a nick name for the two stage lock up plate because of its shape.  :ppcrn:
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 11:45:45 AM by Dillon »

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2016, 03:54:37 PM »
Confusion in profusion........
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2016, 03:59:06 PM »
Confusion in profusion........

there really should be no confusion
if all you are looking for is holding power a gen I single stage lockup works
for years  the Gen I multi stage was the dragstrip king untill the gen II came out
both the gen I multi stage and the Gen II if setup for kill at 60' will slip a under some conditions under street use
you can make both work with more "static pressure" but that will effect the 60'
RCC GT4088R
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2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Offline MICHAEL MATHEWS

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2016, 05:16:03 PM »
Huge difference between wheel driven clutches and engine driven clutches

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2016, 05:43:53 PM »
Huge difference between wheel driven clutches and engine driven clutches
you mean gen1 vrs gen 2 . correct?
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2015 Loring 220.01743 MPH Faired in fifth gear

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 02:13:07 PM »
Are any of these muti-stage clutches adjustable for the Gen II bikes.............adjustable as in how much force to activate and when? 

Or do you just install it and go? Thinking about unwanted slippage now.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online sportbikeryder

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 03:53:18 PM »
Are any of these muti-stage clutches adjustable for the Gen II bikes.............adjustable as in how much force to activate and when? 

Or do you just install it and go? Thinking about unwanted slippage now.

Most all of the clutches can be setup as a basic functioning lockup. The multistage offers additional settings (if desired), and the engine driven clutches even more additional tuning, with positive engagement and slip control based on engine rpm.

The "snowflake" and "2 stage" are the same thing. Simple arms that increase force with greater shaft rpm.

Multi stage, either the familiar MTC, or others that have small springs on some or all arms, delay some of the arms, requiring higher shaft rpm before exerting the force (slipping the clutch during a hard drag style launch)

Both the snowflake and multi stage clutches are driven off if transmission input shaft speed, NOT engine rpm. If the clutch does not have enough static to move the bike when the clutch is released, the bike literally won't move (much) and instead can just sit there and fry the clutch.

Either style is absolutely fine for street use, and when used with stock type static springs, allow for a clutch that has a stock feel when cruising light to light, but offers extreme clamping force at high(er) transmission input shaft speeds. On the street, they are basically the equivalent of extremely heavy clutch springs without the hard pull and holding when stopped. For race use, they both can be setup differently to make the bike leave the line better.

Engine driven clutches are much like a mini bike clutch. A Gen2 MTC, Hayes, Rock, Gann, etc engine driven clutches are all pretty much functionally the same. Higher engine rpm= higher force on the clutch pressure plate.  The weights are attached to the outer clutch basket and spin as the engine is revved, even with the lever pulled in.
Using an engine driven clutch on the street, while certainly doable, is not the same as a conventional clutch. Depending on settings, An engine driven clutch could actually start engaging at very high rpm by pulling the clutch lever out of your hand and taking off (like a minibike / gocart). The transmission shaft clutches cannot do this.

A full slider clutch is engine rpm driven and uses ONLY this to launch the bike. At low rpm, there is no clutch contact at all, at a higher, set rpm, the clutch starts engaging. No clutch lever to over ride it at all, and only for racing. Regardless if what anyone says, a conventional full slider should not be used on the street.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 03:55:06 PM by sportbikeryder »
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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2016, 04:27:19 PM »
:thumb: Great descriptions, thank you.
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Offline piratediverjefff

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 05:51:30 PM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 05:54:06 PM by piratediverjefff »
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Online Dillon

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2016, 04:42:30 AM »




The "snowflake" and "2 stage" are the same thing. Simple arms that increase force with greater shaft rpm.





I thought "snowflake" was just a nick name for the two stage lock up plate because of its shape.  :ppcrn:

Does this mean I actually got something right  :D

Offline speedduck

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2016, 10:34:19 AM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup

Oh, the price gone up, it wasn`t so long ago i bought mine and paid something like 850 or 890. Sold it for 600 nearly unused, the guy got it cheap  :D

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2016, 11:42:56 AM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup

I mentioned that and Rodney and Company said the MTC multi-stage would be the best clutch for my street ridden Turbusa II.  Go with the experts. 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

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Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Wolf

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2016, 07:29:43 PM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup

Oh, the price gone up, it wasn`t so long ago i bought mine and paid something like 850 or 890. Sold it for 600 nearly unused, the guy got it cheap  :D

Why did you sell yours?  Multistage instead?

Offline speedduck

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 02:06:04 AM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup

Oh, the price gone up, it wasn`t so long ago i bought mine and paid something like 850 or 890. Sold it for 600 nearly unused, the guy got it cheap  :D

Why did you sell yours?  Multistage instead?

It`s a land speed bike, no need for dragbike style clutches.
Just a basic two stage, i think it`s a RPM. We could not keep the grip on the boost clutch after 500hp. First aid was to replace the inner smaller friction plate with the same size as others, but it took us just a little further. Maybe if the basic springs changed to even stiffer could help, but don`t want to risk it slipping at any point. Now, with the basic lockup and lots of weighs in the arms its still holding on with 370lbft of torque.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 04:05:31 AM »
That is a "fugguva lotta mo' torque" to hold down.  Like having a tiger in a cage.    :shock:
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2016, 09:40:56 AM »
:thumb: Great descriptions, thank you.

You mean "thank you, John."   :)
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: Someone please explain the different clutch set ups!
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2016, 06:36:22 PM »
I figured you(Davey)would probably go with one of Seb's Boost Lockup jobs:

http://nlrsystems.com/boost-controllers/nlr-boost-lockup

Naw, Rodney prefers the MTC multi-stage for me for turbo street useage. 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."