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Author Topic: cleaning stock valves  (Read 18992 times)

Offline arthur39

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cleaning stock valves
« on: February 08, 2016, 05:29:51 PM »
I have to break down the top end of my motor, (gen 1 busa stock valves) due to some oil getting past the valve seals, the intake valves have a pretty good amount of oil/carbon deposits on the back of them. I want to clean them with a drill and some fine scotch brite. I heard some chatter that the valves are coated and you cant sand or polish them up, is that true? If so what is suggested to clean up the valves. Can the stock steel valves be lapped? I  Saw the other post that said  Titanium valves should not be lapped back in?  :?  The stock valves have about 12,000 miles on them and should still be good. Just want to make sure they are clean and seated properly.  Also I plan on new piston rings, while i'm in there. Anybody on here sell 4 sets of wossner 81mm standard bore piston rings?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 05:51:30 PM by arthur39 »

Offline FlatlandBusa

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 11:56:57 PM »
If they just need cleaned, a soft wire wheel works well.  If there is any wear, replace them. Leak check after reassembly.
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Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 11:45:31 AM »
While the bike is down, how about just getting a brand new set of Vance & Hines valves.  Retail on the SS valves is right at 440.  Not overly expensive IMO for what you get.........a brand new valvetrain.  Just a thought.
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Offline arthur39

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 04:59:18 PM »
While the bike is down, how about just getting a brand new set of Vance & Hines valves.  Retail on the SS valves is right at 440.  Not overly expensive IMO for what you get.........a brand new valvetrain.  Just a thought.


ive been looking at that as well, Guess I first have to pull the head off, see the condition of the valves.
If I do use new stainless valves will I have to recut the seats? If it is just refacing the 45, i can probably do that, I just don't have the 3 cut kit. I'll need a shim kit, If the guides are good can I re use them with the new valves? I just don't want it to get too expensive and involved by swapping valves. Im still smarting from a bottom end rebuild last season. Looks like I have to repair a small crack on the header as well. Arrrgh

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 09:35:11 AM »
I do not know about re-cutting the seats as to whether the 45 cut would be sufficient but yes, you can re-use your old guides if they are not worn.  You will, of course, have to re-shim all the valves.  It can be done and done inexpensively, IMO.   
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Offline knecum

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 10:26:28 PM »
Keep your receipt, I never had luck with S.S. valves on stock seats, seen numerous  S.S. valves trench and sink in the head and take up the clear enough to Keep it open and lower compression.  Never ever seen it on stock valves on a Busa. Just glass bead them and your done. Atleast kiss the 45 or get a full radius V.J. from Carpenter, and tell him I sent you you, and get it milled. .012 and int on ex side. Or throw a Gen2 int in with gen1 int on ex. You have to put the offset pin in the gen2 cam on the int and spin it around the opposite of the instructions.  Flip the bearings around and remove the circuit and set the int @.100 and the Ex @ .085 @ overlap.  DONE!

Offline knecum

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 10:28:35 PM »
I have to break down the top end of my motor, (gen 1 busa stock valves) due to some oil getting past the valve seals, the intake valves have a pretty good amount of oil/carbon deposits on the back of them. I want to clean them with a drill and some fine scotch brite. I heard some chatter that the valves are coated and you cant sand or polish them up, is that true? If so what is suggested to clean up the valves. Can the stock steel valves be lapped? I  Saw the other post that said  Titanium valves should not be lapped back in?  :?  The stock valves have about 12,000 miles on them and should still be good. Just want to make sure they are clean and seated properly.  Also I plan on new piston rings, while i'm in there. Anybody on here sell 4 sets of wossner 81mm standard bore piston rings?

I think they just use a factory stk bore ring set, tiny 2mm oil ring set. But call to make sure

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 08:08:15 AM »
I have to break down the top end of my motor, (gen 1 busa stock valves) due to some oil getting past the valve seals, the intake valves have a pretty good amount of oil/carbon deposits on the back of them. I want to clean them with a drill and some fine scotch brite. I heard some chatter that the valves are coated and you cant sand or polish them up, is that true? If so what is suggested to clean up the valves. Can the stock steel valves be lapped? I  Saw the other post that said  Titanium valves should not be lapped back in?  :?  The stock valves have about 12,000 miles on them and should still be good. Just want to make sure they are clean and seated properly.  Also I plan on new piston rings, while i'm in there. Anybody on here sell 4 sets of wossner 81mm standard bore piston rings?

I think they just use a factory stk bore ring set, tiny 2mm oil ring set. But call to make sure

There are different things for them. The newer pistons use a ring pack from Riken, and is a different setup as compared to the earlier ones.

The newer pistons should have "RIK" as part of the part of on the piston crown
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 08:09:27 AM »
If you do have the earlier pistons, let me know, I believe I have a set of rings for them, but no longer have the early pistons in any of my motors.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline arthur39

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 09:30:37 AM »
If you do have the earlier pistons, let me know, I believe I have a set of rings for them, but no longer have the early pistons in any of my motors.

thanks everyone for input,   the pistons are the low compression turbo pistons with a spacer, 81mm they have been in the engine for around 4 years now. Gen 1  I don't recall the RIK on them, I believe they are the earlier pistons, 810XDS I believe is the part number, but that is only what I could find online.

Hopefully Ill have the head off this week and know why I am oil fouling the plugs so quickly, occurs mostly on start up.  I haven't ruled out the scavenge pump or turbo either.  have quite a bit of trouble shooting.

Offline knecum

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 06:22:14 PM »
A lot of the pro street guys use the red spray painted coating which means this side up on the assembly line. 10.5.4  CR

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 09:17:06 AM »
A lot of the pro street guys use the red spray painted coating which means this side up on the assembly line. 10.5.4  CR

What is the current bar in pro-street anyways?  I seem to recall a 6.50-6.59 or so being laid down this last year by someone at well over 210. 
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Offline TROUBLENC

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 04:55:57 PM »
Before and after :tu:
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 10:30:59 PM »
A lot of the pro street guys use the red spray painted coating which means this side up on the assembly line. 10.5.4  CR

What is the current bar in pro-street anyways?  I seem to recall a 6.50-6.59 or so being laid down this last year by someone at well over 210.

6.72 is the quickest, 6.81 with rules current as of the end of last year.


http://www.dragbike.com/pro-street-goat-list/
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline arthur39

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 09:12:03 PM »
got the head off, piston tops look like new which is a relief, intake valves and area around plugs look bad, take a look, any opinions? this is a turbo motor, low miles

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 11:14:27 AM »
Techron on occasion helps with those deposits on the intake side.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

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Offline arthur39

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 12:37:11 PM »
Plugs were fouling after a few hundred miles, i use techron as well

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 07:03:21 AM »
Valve guide seals and rings.  Is the A/F ratio better than 12 to 1 accross the board? 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 08:06:32 AM »
That doesn't look bad. Hard to tell from the picture, could have a touch of detonation on cyl (looks sort of "peppered"), but doesn't look like much to worry about to me.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
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4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Jay

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2016, 05:27:48 PM »
Good time to upgrade the valves.  http://www.hayabusazone.com/valves.html

Offline arthur39

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2016, 08:05:50 PM »
Valve guide seals and rings.  Is the A/F ratio better than 12 to 1 accross the board?
]

a/f has not been a constant lately because of the oil fouling on the plugs, constant misfire and low power. I have an old school air water plenum, that has to come off when changing the plugs so its a pita. Im sick of changin plugs. Turbo and mechanical scavenge pump are still suspect as well. I run it rich 11.4 to 12.1 on boost with new plugs.
gonna replace rings and seals, while im in here.

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2016, 07:13:19 AM »
I agree with John, not a big deal a tad rich, thats mostly were your getting the black from possably a little oil fouling, one problem I and  it would seem several others is the O2 sensor on most data loggers go somewhere in the middle of the dump pipe and when your at anything but full boost it gives screwed readings because its not far from the pipes open end, at slow speeds the reading shows leaner than really is cause the sensor is so close to the open air, the really pro dyno guys know ways around this and of course thats what they get the big bucks for, the plenum you have does make changeing plugs a real PITA, but being old school myself and not putting complete faith in the data logger, I put my tools and spare plugs, small laptop,  in a small backpack and hit the interstate and make a couple of short boosted hits and then a easy run, so I'm sure the plugs are not to hot or to cold and fouling, I will do this whenever I make any change in the fuel system, map, lines, rail, pump, like you said it is a pain and even if it takes a couple hours, your pretty sure your when your done your not fouling or melting plugs, valves or pistons,....I do have access to a dyno, but its older than me and has not setup to read A/F, and the dude it belongs to don't really like to run my bike on it, as its two or three times the bike its used to
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline LVBUSA

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2016, 07:37:24 AM »
Good time to upgrade the valves.  http://www.hayabusazone.com/valves.html

Got a full set of those in my new head !!!....... :thumb:
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Offline Jay

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2016, 01:37:06 AM »
Keep your receipt, I never had luck with S.S. valves on stock seats, seen numerous  S.S. valves trench and sink in the head and take up the clear enough to Keep it open and lower compression.  Never ever seen it on stock valves on a Busa.

Steve;

I would love for you to try a set of ours. It would change your opinion for sure.  There are a lot of Chinese valves out there now and that may account for the experiences you have had.  In two years, we have never has a single case of ours trenching.

Offline speedduck

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Re: cleaning stock valves
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2016, 10:00:15 AM »
Keep your receipt, I never had luck with S.S. valves on stock seats, seen numerous  S.S. valves trench and sink in the head and take up the clear enough to Keep it open and lower compression.  Never ever seen it on stock valves on a Busa.

Steve;

I would love for you to try a set of ours. It would change your opinion for sure.  There are a lot of Chinese valves out there now and that may account for the experiences you have had.  In two years, we have never has a single case of ours trenching.

I`ve had that few times using Ferrea, dunno what the reason was. Later those been working ok, but i`ve had different seats installed in the head.