Can you run with the Big Boys in the 1000cc class ?

[scott g]

This run by Jon Minonno was made in 1992, on a double engine Triumph. 
He attempted to back up the record but the SCTA "denied" him
the opportunity due to "standing water" on the track.

23) Jon Minonno (sponsored by Jack Wilson) ...256.+++mph......Tri x 2....Bonneville.......1992
Many years ago, with a pair of '70's Triumph pushrod motors
World's fastest sit-on pushrod engine bike. (now Age 70+)

The #23 tells us that he is #23 on the list of World's Fastest Sit-on Riders with this path.

That list is for best official speed, doesn't have to be a record.

[scott g]

Interesting point to note,, off "all" the siton bikes that have exceeded 250mph, only four, "Only Four", have backed their record up with a return pass in the opposite direction,, John Noonan, Richard Assen, Greg Watters, Al lamb

History is important !

Most of us want our "best efforts"
to be remembered with respect.

I would add JASON MC VICAR TO THE 2-WAY LIST:

MPS-BG-1350 JASON MC VICAR (Scott Guthrie Racing) Suzuki 8 /08 253.297MPH Bonneville / SCTA

AND, he has done it at least twice,
since BOTH these records are current !


MPS-BF-1650 Jason McVicar (Scott Guthrie Racing) Hayabusa 8 /07 250.135 mph Bonneville / SCTA

[scott g]

Jason is #22 on "The List."

22) Jason McVicar..(Scott Guthrie)...256.+++mph...Busa....2008....Bonneville / SCTA.

[FlaminRoo]

Lists, I'm confused, there are so many replys and amended LISTS  ,,

Jason at #22, where do I find this list in its entirety ???

[AlterEgo]

Yes thats another great point, and you know none of them had a great tail wind, thats the reason for a backup return run within a time limit to further unsure a true average speed with no tail wind assistance.

With the sport growing like it is, and to protect validity of those who earn the real National and World Records the LSR community should start correcting it's self so we dont have 10 people claiming to be Worlds fastest. Instead they should claim track or event fastest, or records.  I personally have corrected people and explained the differences.  They are usually humbled when they know the difference.

Interesting point to note,, off "all" the siton bikes that have exceeded 250mph, only four, "Only Four", have backed their record up with a return pass in the opposite direction,, John Noonan, Richard Assen, Greg Watters, Al lamb

[scott g]

In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?

[AlterEgo]

Haha Not even a close analogy.  But I'm sure they have their own set of rules to follow. 

We are talking about LSR not Olympics. 

In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?

[scott g]

Haha Not even a close analogy. 

But I'm sure they have their own set of rules to follow. 

We are talking about LSR not Olympics. 

In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?

WHICH set of rules do
LSR competitors follow ?

[AlterEgo]

Of course they have to follow event, track or sanctioning body rules. 
Not sure what point of argument you are trying to make, my point is if someone get a greatest speed at a track or event they they have the event or track record only, and its improper to self proclaim being the Worlds Fastest unless they do it at an FIM event where true speeds, unaided by the wind, with a back up run is recorded. Thats just the way it is. Otherwise, again, you get 10 people claiming to be worlds fastest, sorry garbage in = garbage out.  Even when I'm the second fastest, I don't claim to be the "Second Fastest World Record Holder"  I'v seen that claim out there also,  LoL  Where does it stop? 

Ok  i'm done on this, have fun with it. 



[/quote]

WHICH set of rules do
LSR competitors follow ?
[/quote]

[joea]

these days the "lists" already compare apples and oranges..."their both fruits so its valid mentality"...

historically World land speed records are and average speed maintained for a kilo or a mile

but again the lists and other fodder...compare ONE WAY EXITS speeds over a 160 ft timing trap, no engine measurment/certification,
to average speeds over a surveyed and certified 5280 ft or 1000 ft trap with engine measurement.......

so with that add this one to the "list"

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a29797/kawasaki-h2r-249-mph/

"look at me and my accomplishments...because you don't know any better"

i set 18 more "records" today....wow...what records did you "break"....often...silence....

ps...fim/ama is respected...BUT...when many FIM records are 20-30-50 etal mph slower than SCTA records over
the same certified distance...using the SAME Certified clocks and the SAME certified course...one has to wonder....

ps when the fim/ama bike only meet has a history  of pics of bikes during record runs blatatly illegal in configuration...is provided
to sanctioning body...and nothing done...one has to also wonder....YES this has happened on numerous occassions...a search on landracing.com provides much of this "history" ....hence is WHY the SCTA 200 mph Club, with its stringent and respected history and LSR
legends keeping it sacredly legit....had to NOT allow many to enter from said AMA bike only meet....

Mr. Guthrie is MOST qualified to speak to many of these issues....as he is the MOST knowledgeable...and involved.....!!!!!

disclaimer...yes NO one , or sanctioning body is perfect....but is does cause one to pause a bit

[AlterEgo]

FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.

And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.

Great discussions.  But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM 

[FlaminRoo]

What attracts me to FIM records is the history/legitimatise associated with them,, We all look back at Ernst Henne, Johnny Allen, Don Vesco, Dave Campos, etc in the knowledge that thay all set "World Records" under the same rules (although tweeked a little),,
 
Today, as AlterEgo points out, a kid can go down to the Scrubby Airport, pay their entrie, make a pass(with a ? mph tailwind/headwind) and ride away, sproking that he is the worlds fastest, go figger

To set a FIM record, with the stringent entrie procedure its almost a record in itself  just to get to the startline  ,,
 I work and build a Japanese bike here in Australia, enter it in a sanctioning orginashion based in Switzland, to compete in the USA, in the knowledge that all those that have gone before have had to comply with the time honered FIM procedure,,

sortta makes the kids record at Scrubby look a little hollow, huh    

[scott g]

FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.

And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.

Great discussions.  But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM

I am now (ever more than usually) confused.

I know the FIM, when running at Bonneville,
returns backwards over the same course.

Does the AMA do this also ?

[AlterEgo]

Exactly Thanks Roo

I think there is a little rivalry going on here too, there was mention of someone running illegal config in AMA and still setting a record.  Along with all the other rules, there are clear and specific rules to enter into a protest also, sure things do get missed and the AMA and FIM use the same tech guys with AMA and FIM as overseers and the final word according to the rules, if you did not follow protest rules, then again, SOUR GRAPES, and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs.  the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance, and they dont recognize AMA but do recognize FIM hummm. 

I have spotted people running out of class and brought it to the attention of the official IAW the RULES and they follow up and correct the issue.  I have also seen things done at a SCTA event and thought hummm... No one is perfect.     

What attracts me to FIM records is the history/legitimatise associated with them,, We all look back at Ernst Henne, Johnny Allen, Don Vesco, Dave Campos, etc in the knowledge that thay all set "World Records" under the same rules (although tweeked a little),,
 
Today, as AlterEgo points out, a kid can go down to the Scrubby Airport, pay their entrie, make a pass(with a ? mph tailwind/headwind) and ride away, sproking that he is the worlds fastest, go figger

To set a FIM record, with the stringent entrie procedure its almost a record in itself  just to get to the startline  ,,
 I work and build a Japanese bike here in Australia, enter it in a sanctioning orginashion based in Switzland, to compete in the USA, in the knowledge that all those that have gone before have had to comply with the time honered FIM procedure,,

sortta makes the kids record at Scrubby look a little hollow, huh

[Oz Booster]

Yes Scott AMA run both ways

[AlterEgo]

FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.

And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.

Great discussions.  But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM

I am now (ever more than usually) confused.

I know the FIM, when running at Bonneville,
returns backwards over the same course.

Does the AMA do this also ?

Yes Scott,   AMA rules say within same day  FIM is 2 hours

[scott g]

[quote author=AlterEgo link=topic=165378.msg1588398#msg1588398 date=1467498789]

Yes Scott,   AMA rules say within same day  FIM is 2 hours


[/quote]

I sit corrected !

Is that, for the AMA
the same PHYSICAL mile,
or the same RELATIVE mile ?[/font][/size]

[scott g]

...What attracts me to FIM records is the
history/legitimatise associated with them,,

I do NOT share your
enthusiasm for the FIM...........

[AlterEgo]

Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works.  What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA.  Sure there is a nice list showing some fine speeds but its a one man's list, vs. two historical and legendary organizations list.     

Mr. Guthrie is MOST qualified to speak to many of these issues....as he is the MOST knowledgeable...and involved.....!!!!!

disclaimer...yes NO one , or sanctioning body is perfect....but is does cause one to pause a bit

[AlterEgo]

LOL  Scott you dont understand the FIM.  They are the most valid organization in the World my friend.

...What attracts me to FIM records is the
history/legitimatise associated with them,,

I do NOT share your
enthusiasm for the FIM...........

[AlterEgo]

Scott did you know that when you compete for FIM records you also compete for the Mile and Kilo.  On the same run you could break the National Mile record the World Mile and kilo record.....  that will make some heads go pop!!!

[scott g]

I think there is a little rivalry going on here too, there was mention
of someone running illegal config in AMA and still setting a record. 

I am one of those people who protested.

My protest was upheld.

The record was canceled.

The rules were re-written the next winter.

The AMA inspectors could not correctly
apply their own rules.

One example:  An (unnamed) rider was competing
in a no fairing class, but in fact HAD a fairing.

I asked how this could be.

"They" said that as per road-racing rules, there had
to be a "belly pan" to catch the oil of an engine failure.

It was a "safety" rule.

I asked how there could be all these "naked" bikes
running WITHOUT belly pans, if it was a safety rule.

(NO answer)

THEIR (AMA) rules said"No aerodynamics below the level of the axles."

That means no Belly Pans.

My day was done.......

[scott g]

Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works.  What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA. 

You are getting in over your head.

I am a LIFE MEMBER of the AMA, first joined in 1971.

I set several AMA national LSR records under
the old 3-run system (remember that ?).

I helped Denis Manning (Is THAT name familiar ?)
set up the rules for BUB / BMST.

Who are you, and what are YOUR
qualifications for your bogus opinions ?

[AlterEgo]

Relax Scott  I know who you are,  just look at your past comments about how the AMA and FIM works and how you hate them both, you have great knowledge but its tainted.

Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works.  What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA. 

You are getting in over your head.

I am a LIFE MEMBER of the AMA, first joined in 1971.

I set several AMA national LSR records under
the old 3-run system (remember that ?).

I helped Denis Manning (Is THAT name familiar ?)
set up the rules for BUB / BMST.

Who are you, and what are YOUR
qualifications for your bogus opinions ?

[scott g]

..., and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs.  the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance, and they dont recognize AMA but do recognize FIM hummm. 

Again, you are WAY over your head !

I was, at the time, a member of the Board of Directors for the
Bonneville 200 MPH Club, and "inspected the AMA operation."

As per my above post, the AMA was found to not be able
to enforce their own rules, or establish the correctness of the entries.

The AMA was found "not ready for prime time.

The FIM was fine.

The Bonneville 200 Club recognizes records set under the FIM.

It is in our by-laws, and in our soul.

It is the BONNEVILLE 200 CLUB,
NOT the SCTA 200 club.

ALL Bonneville records (including the snow-mobile-classified-as-a-motorcycle)
set under FIM rules may be included under the BONNEVILLE 200 club rules.