Author Topic: Fuel Tank capacity (Read 11025 times) Tweet

blt1 · « **on:** August 07, 2016, 06:19:49 PM »

I am currently using a modified stock fuel tank and would like to run something smaller for land speed events. There are the one quart drag race fuel cells that I do not feel have the capacity for 1-1.5 mile runs, then the fiberglass tanks that need to be lined for race fuel that appear to still have issues with the liner.
I was wondering
1) What size tank would be best for the high hp guys running 1.5 mile runs as I know this would work for my application?
2) What material should it be made of?
3) Who makes this tank or whom do I need to contact to get one made?

Oz Booster · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2016, 02:13:43 AM »

We have the ebay 2.5 gallon fuel cells on a couple of bikes, need mods to fit comfortably , and had problems with 1 cracking the seams (cheap shit that is hard to tell from ok quality )same one had internal foam that broke up in a few days..... but otherwise easy to fit to the bike
and the rest have been good , my mods include a pump bracket on the bottom so the fuel system lifts out as a unit

Otherwise Scott Horner was producing some nice quality fuel cells

speedduck · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2016, 03:01:49 AM »

I have the stock tank lowered and it accepts about 4 gal.
They make nice welded aluminium fuel cells, but you should first state what fuel are you using, if it`s mostly alcohol based, it can corrode the alu, at least the poor grade ones.
And other thing to remember, if you have hi-flow fuel pump and small tank it heats up the fuel and you are losing power.
Also one thing, you should make sure the tank is designed so the pump never ever draws air instead of fuel. That`s why i rather go with bigger tank and keep it nearly full. It`s not any comfort you saved in weight or space if the engine is toast.

Strengi · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2016, 03:21:37 AM »

I have little under 2gal stainless tank for methanol, mile run takes about half of it.
Running belt driven aeromotive pump, good for 1800hp with meth so it circulates alot, I have fuel temp sensor at rail and no probelms with temp.

blt1 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2016, 08:55:59 AM »

OZ are you using just standard automotive type cells? Thanks for the reminder of Scott Horner I will call him later today.

Speedduck did you lower your tank yourself or did you have someone perform this for you? I am in the DFW area if anybody knows someone around here to perform this operation.

Strengi I believe methenol is in the future and it is good to know you are having minimal fuel temp issues with such a large pump.

Oz Booster · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:21:39 PM »

Yes very little mod needed to fit , i angle the corners for inner thighs , move outlets and change the mounts a little

Oz Booster · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2016, 04:41:12 PM »

I have cut and dented a few tanks too
This

works better than this that leavs your head at normal height

and i have no pics but cut another through the top at about the level of a fuel cell, but left the tank bottom covering the intercooler and still used the front mount

biggest advantage of the hammered tank (rubber mallett barely disturbs the paint ) is you only hammer the parts you contact untill you fit the tank , then your left with great leg and inner arm contact of you need the grip and you dont have to put weight on the bars trying to hang on

Gotenman · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2016, 04:32:46 AM »

OZ booster, I would really like to contact you but I can not get a pm to you. Could you please send me your email address or a quick mail to gvillamoreno@hotmail.com.

Best wishes, Gonzo

blt1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2016, 08:45:03 AM »

Oz, you have given me some more ideas on which direction to head.

blt1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2016, 09:07:41 AM »

Speedduck I have spoken with some of my friends that have used methanol in their race cars and they had no problems with using an aluminum tank for years. However they used top end lubricant which we believe was the main reason they did not have issues with the tank or internal engine parts for sure. Methanol on its own would be another story.

RansomT · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2016, 11:53:00 AM »

Quote from: blt1 on August 09, 2016, 09:07:41 AM

Speedduck I have spoken with some of my friends that have used methanol in their race cars and they had no problems with using an aluminum tank for years. However they used top end lubricant which we believe was the main reason they did not have issues with the tank or internal engine parts for sure. Methanol on its own would be another story.

Why not use Methanol?

FlaminRoo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2016, 04:29:11 PM »

Have used Methanol in aluminium tanks on my race bikes (Drag, Speedway and LandSpeed) since the late seventies,, no problems, however, always drain the Methanol out and purge the "complete fuel system" with a oil/gasoline mix

RansomT · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2016, 05:13:01 PM »

Quote from: FlaminRoo on August 09, 2016, 04:29:11 PM

Have used Methanol in aluminium tanks on my race bikes (Drag, Speedway and LandSpeed) since the late seventies,, no problems, however, always drain the Methanol out and purge the "complete fuel system" with a oil/gasoline mix

I've been having some success recently running Ethanol, not nearly as a PITA as Methanol.

blt1 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2016, 10:17:07 PM »

Yes you have been having some success Ransom. I want to iron out new system on gas then perhaps change to methanol or ethanol. First I need to get a little lower on the bike, hoping a different tank will get me there.

Oz Booster · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2016, 11:05:17 PM »

I am going half way on the fuel , figure E85 will be less fuel pump power needed, and less fuel system maintainence

firemanjim · « **Reply #15 on:** August 09, 2016, 11:24:36 PM »

We are currently running our 600 on E-85 with great results-- 317 hp. Using race E-85 so very consistent

speedduck · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2016, 04:20:44 AM »

Quote from: blt1 on August 09, 2016, 09:07:41 AM

Speedduck I have spoken with some of my friends that have used methanol in their race cars and they had no problems with using an aluminum tank for years. However they used top end lubricant which we believe was the main reason they did not have issues with the tank or internal engine parts for sure. Methanol on its own would be another story.

I had couple tank bottom plates made out of aluminium and used E85 as a fuel, one worked allright but the other started to corrode pretty quick, seemed to be very different grades of alu

Ransom, how did you find the methanol being more tricky compared to ethanol ?

FlaminRoo · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2016, 06:50:16 AM »

I live in the largest sugar cane growing region in Australia,(was born and raised on a sugar cane farm), there is an Ethanol plant just down the road,, Have often thought of trying it,,

What is the recommended air/fuel ratio with 100% Ethanol ?

RansomT · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2016, 09:28:21 AM »

A couple years back when I was looking into switching over to a alcohol fuel, I talked with several folks that was using either. I found that the Methanol guys were going through a "ritual" with their race fuel while the ethanol guys were just treating it as pump gas. It seemed that Methanol was a lot more corrosive to the fuel system and took extra care. Then I found on the tuning side, I could still use ECUEditor with ethanol because the fuel demand was only about 30% more than race gas. Anything that demands much more than that, the injectors would then have to be close to 1000cc and you loose low speed/idle. And I guess, the final point that switched me was I could drive down the road to my local gas station and buy E85 for less than 87 pump gas. While I don't use E85 now, it gave me a starting point that I was able to work with.

Ethanol, like Methanol, has a wider tuning range; runs cooler, but doesn't require quite as much fuel system and can be left in the tank. I do drain the tank over the winter, but not between events.

Oz Booster · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2016, 04:46:11 PM »

I would still flush it with gas between events , found Jelly in my injectors yesterday since last use of E85 in Feb and emptied but not flushed , pretty damp yr here and must be getting moisture into the system

RansomT · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2016, 06:13:43 PM »

Quote from: FlaminRoo on August 10, 2016, 06:50:16 AM

I live in the largest sugar cane growing region in Australia,(was born and raised on a sugar cane farm), there is an Ethanol plant just down the road,, Have often thought of trying it,,

What is the recommended air/fuel ratio with 100% Ethanol ?

Easiest way to do it, IMHO, is to keep the WBO2 on the gas scale. Reflecting the gas scale: Motor only around 12.85:1 Forced or Nitrous 11.5:1 or a tad richer.

speedduck · « **Reply #21 on:** August 11, 2016, 05:56:44 AM »

Quote from: RansomT on August 10, 2016, 09:28:21 AM

Then I found on the tuning side, I could still use ECUEditor with ethanol because the fuel demand was only about 30% more than race gas.
While I don't use E85 now, it gave me a starting point that I was able to work with.

How was it with the power output, switching from race gas to ethanol ?

We made that for a friends n/a, from VP109 to E85 , and the same time installing a bit bigger cams and bumping up the comp, there was just a little increase in power, we were expecting more with the parts changed, i just thought if the ethanol was holding it back compared to VP.

RansomT · « **Reply #22 on:** August 11, 2016, 08:27:41 AM »

I actually did a comparison between several race fuels and E85 on my Busa back when I first did the switch. I used some earlier pulls with 93 Pump, VP Import, C16; and then fresh pulls with MR12, MRX01, and E85. Here is what I got. Each of the results were duplicated and retuned for the fuel, if just at 100% throttle above 8K RPM. Just as note, I have since "detuned" my motor to tolerate bigger shots of nitrous and it now makes around 15 wHP less.

MR12 : 210
E85 : 208
MRX01 : 206
Pump 93 : 202
C16 : 199
Import : 197

Good stuff there....

blt1 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2016, 09:55:00 AM »

I have noticed similar differences between mrx02 and q16 that you have experienced with mr12 and c16, used the q16 for engine protection. The reason I am contemplating methanol is because VP has a product m5 that sounds like a good product.

RansomT · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2016, 10:23:44 AM »

How much less on Q16 than MRX02? They also now make C45, that supposed to be pretty good on high compression engines; but I haven't tested it yet.

blt1 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2016, 11:46:46 AM »

14 hp on motor.

speedduck · « **Reply #26 on:** August 11, 2016, 12:10:09 PM »

You don`t use the VP109 (?), it`s the most popular here, pretty good on octane and added oxygen

RansomT · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2016, 01:24:27 PM »

Quote from: blt1 on August 11, 2016, 11:46:46 AM

14 hp on motor.

WOW!!

Since the price of Q16 dropped, I've switched a lot of "street/strip" nitrous bikes over. Typically, 3-4% increase over C16 ... just a tad better than pump. On the motor side of things, Q16 likes a couple of tenths AFR leaner than pump... ~13.3:1..but Q16 requires around 8-9% more fuel than C16.

FlaminRoo · « **Reply #28 on:** August 11, 2016, 03:28:54 PM »

Quote from: RansomT on August 11, 2016, 08:27:41 AM

I actually did a comparison between several race fuels and E85 on my Busa back when I first did the switch. I used some earlier pulls with 93 Pump, VP Import, C16; and then fresh pulls with MR12, MRX01, and E85. Here is what I got. Each of the results were duplicated and retuned for the fuel, if just at 100% throttle above 8K RPM. Just as note, I have since "detuned" my motor to tolerate bigger shots of nitrous and it now makes around 15 wHP less.

MR12 : 210
E85 : 208
MRX01 : 206
Pump 93 : 202
C16 : 199
Import : 197

Good stuff there....

Interesting, thankyou,,

What hp did she go with Methanol ?,,

Did the Methanol have a small Acetone content (maybe 3-5%) ?,,

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Author Topic: Fuel Tank capacity (Read 11025 times) Tweet