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Author Topic: Cam Lobe Wear  (Read 861 times)

Online Daveeed

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Cam Lobe Wear
« on: March 28, 2018, 02:51:58 PM »
Having worn through several sets of Web cams, and repaired the damage... I'm getting tired of it.
And please don't think I'm dissing Web, that is not my intent. I will happily purchase more Web cams if I decide to go that route.
I want the HP that Web 425/415 and or Web 445/415 provide, however I'm wondering what cam manufacturers, friction reducing coatings, or other viable options should be considered that may provide longer life when running high lift cams?

Good to be back!
Daveeed

Tonsil Cancer Survivor: (HPV-16... go figure)
I race to make my soul smile, not to dismantle yours
Mojave Mile: 207 mph
Mojave Magnum: 209 mph
Bonneville: 200.5 mph
Bub RWB: 194.5 mph (Unacclaimed Champion!)
1397/JE13.5-1/Ward head/Web 415-395
Tuner: Fireman Jim @ JT&S Performance, Sonoma

Online MJ Williams

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2018, 06:40:26 PM »
PM'd
Have a Harley, spent lots of money on it, thought I had a fast motorcycle, bought a Busa, realized all I had was a fast Harley, not a fast motorcycle!

Offline knecum

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2018, 08:04:55 PM »
 Don't ride on the street with them.

Offline speedduck

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2018, 09:16:17 AM »
I`ve also experienced few pairs of Webcams wearing out, but they all been hardwelds and the guy who been repairing them for me says the difference in the filling material makes the wear. I dont know if billetts would be better.
Regrind from stock ones are very durable, but there are limited options , no big cams possible.


Offline fj1289

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 12:38:55 PM »
Any chance you are getting into valve float?  Very hard on the cams when they come back into contact.  I understand Web tends to use fairly aggressive ramps (not saying it's good or bad - just part of the overall package).

Offline firemanjim

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2018, 02:48:52 PM »
What Steve said-- Dave did indeed ride at least one set of cams on the street a bunch, not sure of others?? And send me your PM as well, Mike.
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Online Daveeed

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2018, 02:54:39 PM »
Thanks Guys!
I called Web Cams and what I'm going to do is send the cams back to Web and have them repaired. (I didn't know they did repair)
Melessa at Web said if almost all the lobes are bad then its best to get new cams. If only a couple lobes then its best to repair.

I can't wait to get this beast running, Its gonna run so freakn good!

Smokey burnout,

Daveeed
Tonsil Cancer Survivor: (HPV-16... go figure)
I race to make my soul smile, not to dismantle yours
Mojave Mile: 207 mph
Mojave Magnum: 209 mph
Bonneville: 200.5 mph
Bub RWB: 194.5 mph (Unacclaimed Champion!)
1397/JE13.5-1/Ward head/Web 415-395
Tuner: Fireman Jim @ JT&S Performance, Sonoma

Offline wildphil69

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2018, 03:18:36 PM »
I have seen a pile of web cams fail. I feel like the soft plugs in the end need knocked out and have them cleaned very well and replace. I have seen lobes wear off as well as cam journals damages
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline speedduck

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2018, 05:25:46 AM »
How much street riding is too much ?

Offline Landspeed Larry

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2018, 01:07:06 PM »
How much street riding is too much ?
  It depends where and how you ride. On the Autobahn you probably will have no problems, but stuck in traffic on a hot summer day with the bike idling you are almost guaranteed to wear the cams. At low speed and low RPM's the lobe spends more time against the bucket follower. Oil pressure is also less so there is less oil getting to the interface. If an exhaust pipe required removal of the oil cooler that doesn't help. All this assumes you are using stronger springs to support the higher rev potential of the performance cams.    LSL
All motor all the time and a turbo now and then.

Offline fj1289

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 01:43:27 PM »
Where on the cam lobe are you seeing the wear?  On the nose?  Or on the closing ramp?  Or the entire lobe?

Online Daveeed

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2018, 01:06:13 PM »
For me, cam lobe wear starts about 1/8" from the nose, across the nose, and then down the closing ramp no more than 1/4 inch. I have noticed on most of the lobes that have cracking and flaking on the sides, also have the bad lobe, leading me to believe as crap flakes off the side-o-the-lobe, it ends up on the bucket, and kills the lobe. This was on a set of 425/415 cams. I was running 65 lb springs, which I understand should be 55 lb springs if I was to run this cam/spring combo on the street... but I didn't know.
I put about 2,000 street miles (on the bike) on the bike, and almost all the intake and exhaust lobes were gone. After the bike broke a valve off at Mojave, I measured the clearances... one of my cam to bucket clearances was >.100".
The bike dynoed at 225 hp when fresh on fireman Jim's dyno, and then year or so later we dynoed the weekend before Mojave and the bike dynoed at 220 hp. I thought the cause of dropping 5 hp was because on monsoon rain coming down while we were on the dyno. I remember sitting on the bike (with it running) and me saying WTF?, this thing is Fing clattering bad!  Lessons learned.
The next set of cams are  445 / 415 which came off a busa that ran on the salt a couple years in a row, it must have had very low miles on it. The exhaust cam is fine, however the intake has both #1 lobes degraded just a bit, but enough for me not to run them after dumping yet another couple thousand into the motor. I am sending the cams to Web for repair.
I'm thinking from now on I will not start a high lift motor that has sat around during the winter without putting some KY jelly on the lobes/buckets.

So what the hell, Smokey burnout !
Daveeed
Tonsil Cancer Survivor: (HPV-16... go figure)
I race to make my soul smile, not to dismantle yours
Mojave Mile: 207 mph
Mojave Magnum: 209 mph
Bonneville: 200.5 mph
Bub RWB: 194.5 mph (Unacclaimed Champion!)
1397/JE13.5-1/Ward head/Web 415-395
Tuner: Fireman Jim @ JT&S Performance, Sonoma

Offline RansomT

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 08:53:10 PM »
What oil are you running?
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Online Daveeed

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2018, 12:23:57 PM »
Running Mobil 1 oil.

DD
Tonsil Cancer Survivor: (HPV-16... go figure)
I race to make my soul smile, not to dismantle yours
Mojave Mile: 207 mph
Mojave Magnum: 209 mph
Bonneville: 200.5 mph
Bub RWB: 194.5 mph (Unacclaimed Champion!)
1397/JE13.5-1/Ward head/Web 415-395
Tuner: Fireman Jim @ JT&S Performance, Sonoma

Offline knecum

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2018, 10:07:45 AM »
You  said it 2k on the street. They will start to wear at 1k.

Offline speedduck

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2018, 01:43:09 PM »
My friend is (was) optimistic, he has 1622cc gen2 n/a, and he wants to ride it on the street , when not running the mile. Mile speeds are under and over 220mph, power around 265bhp.
Last summer he decided to ride it to this mile event, 1500 miles away, engine broke 2 miles before arriving to the track, one intake was worn, spring in pieces and valves hitting piston. He got 3700mls on the clock with that setup before it broke.
There was wide lobe billet camshaft, oil was not the best grade.

Offline AlterEgo

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Re: Cam Lobe Wear
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 08:20:33 PM »
lots of my stuff I send off for nitrating then cryo/superfinish. Works good last long time.   But first find out why, that issue is not common.  Early BMW S1000rr had an issue of improperly hardened cams leading to failures.

I have a set of those same cams for sale.  I could have them preped for you, nitride, cryo, and superfinish it is pricey, but so is a damaged engine...


Having worn through several sets of Web cams, and repaired the damage... I'm getting tired of it.
And please don't think I'm dissing Web, that is not my intent. I will happily purchase more Web cams if I decide to go that route.
I want the HP that Web 425/415 and or Web 445/415 provide, however I'm wondering what cam manufacturers, friction reducing coatings, or other viable options should be considered that may provide longer life when running high lift cams?

Good to be back!
Daveeed
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 08:26:11 PM by AlterEgo »
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