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Author Topic: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?  (Read 2663 times)

Offline donpearsall

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Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« on: December 10, 2019, 08:07:02 PM »
I have an RCC Ultra turbo manifold but will not be using the secondary injectors - just bigger primaries. I was thinking that the secondary fuel rail would be a good place for nitrous jets IF there was some sort of adaptor that could fit in the injector holes to hold the jets. Does something like that exist? I suppose I could machine something to do it but would rather buy a proven product.

Does anyone know of an adaptor like this?

Thanks
Don

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 10:53:20 PM »
Don, I think Nitrous direct has a nozzle that shares space with an EFI injector... but I have not seen a replacement.  Of course you could use one of those and plug the injector or install a dummy
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 10:30:21 AM »
Thanks Stainless, I checked it out and think I found what you described. However that adaptor is too bulky to fit in the plenum recess hole. I will keep looking. Or just buy a throttle body holder with nitrous injectors like Schnitz sells.

Don


Offline firemanjim

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 11:15:21 AM »
Nitrous , on a turbo?? And if you don't need that plenum I am shopping for one!
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 12:04:17 PM »
Yes I plan on running nitrous with turbo. Even though I have an ice bath intercooler I still think the intake temps are too high which contributes to my exploding engines.

The nitrous will add cooling too, so the plan is to reduce boost a bit and make up the HP with Nitrous. That's the theory! I am going to use a MAXX ECU which they say will handle the fueling well and have safeguards as the system will have closed loop, traction control, boost control, etc.

I did make the nitrous injectors to fit in the plenum and when I am finished I will post some pics here.

Don

Offline MJ Williams

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2020, 05:51:04 PM »
Great love to see it. The diesel guys use nitrous with turbos so why not?
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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 03:36:23 AM »
Yes I plan on running nitrous with turbo. Even though I have an ice bath intercooler I still think the intake temps are too high which contributes to my exploding engines.

The nitrous will add cooling too, so the plan is to reduce boost a bit and make up the HP with Nitrous. That's the theory! I am going to use a MAXX ECU which they say will handle the fueling well and have safeguards as the system will have closed loop, traction control, boost control, etc.

I did make the nitrous injectors to fit in the plenum and when I am finished I will post some pics here.

Don

why wait pics now..... :stk:
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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 01:07:52 PM »
:lol:   :deathmetal:   :ppcrn:   :drink:
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 10:34:49 PM »
The injector replacements are all finished and installed. I was lucky that I already had a piece of Al 1" rod laying by my lathe. I used that to make the 4 NO2 injectors. I tried to match the profile of the existing fuel injectors but the most important part was to get the o-ring seal correct. BTW, had to use my 20 ton press to get the old injectors OUT of the plenum. They are a very close fit in the plenum and after about 6 trips to the salt flats, had enough salt galvanic corrosion that they had welded themselves in. So I think I wrecked them trying to get them out.

Once the profile was shaped on the lathe I polished them, cleaned, then set up an anodizing station to anodize them for anti-corrosion and dying. They came out a little darker than I wanted.

Then I put the old o-rings on, bolted on the fuel rail and all appears to be a good fit. I will run two -3 braided NO2 lines from a solenoid (had to buy -6 to -3 reducers).

So that is how I will use NO2 to give me a bit of power, and cooling. Yes I could have bought a kit to do this from Schnitz or somewhere else, but if it is worth doing, it is worth over-doing.

Don

Offline ADMIN

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2020, 01:33:24 AM »
That is some pretty parts there, admirable kill
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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2020, 04:13:47 AM »
NICE   work on a hand lathe
 man am I spoiled with CNC lathes at my disposal
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Offline MJ Williams

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2020, 05:13:53 PM »
Awesome work I'm curious of how much heat it will pull out of boosted air.
Here's how they do it in the truck world, don't need no fancy airbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dlg3-H1Wwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv_kn8kMStA
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 05:50:39 PM »
Damn! Why didn't I think of that! That is so easy. Those diesel truck guys are geniuses! Awesome!

Actually I was thinking of something similar to get a few MPH more.  Pulse-jet exhaust pipes!

Don

Offline ADMIN

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2020, 10:59:31 AM »
If you landspeed turbo guys weren't so adamant about blocking off your air intakes you could have scramjet power at speed lol
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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 01:58:03 AM »
Oh i agree , Last bodywork we had done at Airtech spent a fair bit of time making ducting from the front to the turbo and including it in the fairing

Looking good Don,   :thumb: 
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Offline MJ Williams

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 01:52:18 PM »
So Don, thinking about this.
The higher your boost the higher your inlet temps.
The higher your inlet temp the more nitrous you have to spray to cool the temps.
The more nitrous you spray the more you raise boost which raises your inlet temps.
Rinse repeat.
So how do you dole out the nitrous, based on inlet temp, boost?
When do you say Uncle?





 
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 11:53:48 PM »
Well Don I certainly understand the logic... you are breaking motors on boost.... soooooooo you fix that by adding N20  :eek:
You should be able to get more power at lower boost levels since you are adding extra O2 to your less dense air.  Have you figured out how to keep it rich enough?  Are you doing wet N20?  How large are your injectors? what was their duty cycle at what boost?
This will be interesting
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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 03:07:08 AM »
Idea is  I think
Same HP at  lower boost  with the nitrous , so less boost=less IAT     
or is the idea MORE POWER  ?     
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Offline RansomT

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 05:24:17 AM »
So Don, thinking about this.
The higher your boost the higher your inlet temps.
The higher your inlet temp the more nitrous you have to spray to cool the temps.
The more nitrous you spray the more you raise boost which raises your inlet temps.
Rinse repeat.
So how do you dole out the nitrous, based on inlet temp, boost?
When do you say Uncle?


One connection is left out...the more nitrous, the higher the exhaust temps.  Poor exhaust valves.
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Offline scott g

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2020, 04:21:01 PM »
I would suspect that the easiest solution is to use methanol

Your longevity with methanol will be longer 'cause
you can run it WAY rich and still make good power.

The latent heat of evaporation will make
your current intercooler more than adequate.

If you are going to run nitrous, that puts you into
a fuel class anyway, so it's not like you are given a new problem.

We ran 259+++mph in the Texas Mile having shut off
at the 3/4 mile mark - and coasted through the lights.

I suspect we could have posted 275mph
in the mile with a stock body, with 44# boost.

Given great traction, that might
 be 290mph at Bonneville.

I was told that particular setup for us
gave 750+hp @ 44 pounds of boost.

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2020, 05:18:08 PM »
Methanol is a great fuel, we removed our intercoolers based on temps taken in the inlet port
but the catch is pumping enough volume at pressure which pretty much excludes an electric fuel pump due to charging limits  , igniting it again using amps you dont have enough of anyway ,
or fuel bypass valving requirements operated from the handlebars if you run a mechanical pump , but this fixes all the power side problems
we went with mechanical pump and bypass valve , electric water pump is an easy fit and consumes only 4 amps

Then the traction available on the salt sort of limits your HP use anyway, i figure best i have used running real heavy is 400hp in 2012
i can turn the boost up or down and it only shows in the throttle position used , better aero is the only way to make better use of the power   
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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2020, 10:39:00 PM »
Thanks for the great discussion guys! I have also been thinking about meth instead of nitrous. I suppose I could use the same injection setup as I have for nitrous. I would need to install yet another tank and electric pump. Hmm, I wonder if the intercooler tank could also serve as the methanol reservoir? Would a methanol mix hurt the aluminum tubing in the intercooler? Just thinking about saving space. I need a place to sit too.

Don

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2020, 04:42:47 AM »
Meth Injection for cooling?   and the intercooler,   with the Gasoline?

Meth for a fuel seems to be a PIA        guys at Loring Dumping the Oil Daily     comes out milky
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2020, 08:55:28 AM »
If you are doing N20 wet, you might consider using alcohol as the supplemental fuel. 

Are you planning on running retracted gap plugs?  The electrode on standard plugs can be a hot spot for preignition.  On our first melt down (early 90's) the electrodes were missing from all 4.  One of the fixes was retracted gap plugs.  One of the other fixes was don't follow the guidelines from the manufacturers of N20 equipment... run rich 
I know motor controls and the N20 manufacturers have greatly improved since then... that is one fierce looking bike Don, it does seem to be running out of room 
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Re: Converting secondary injectors to Nitrous jets?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2020, 01:23:07 PM »
The Methanol for us means no more start line process of topping the ice tank , instead of servicing every run at the start line it gets done at the end of the week in the pits when we drain the fuel tank and flush the fuel system with gasoline and load the -50% fuel map to run a little through the motor , and then  change the oil and filter , so far the oil has discolored slightly but never milky
removing the tail mount ice tank has given a heap of space to lay the electronics out 
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