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Author Topic: Distance between Timing Lights  (Read 1885 times)

Online FlaminRoo

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Distance between Timing Lights
« on: December 22, 2019, 04:05:29 PM »
At Loring what is the distance between the timing lights ??
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Online Frank06

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Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2019, 05:13:08 AM »
132'

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Offline Ali123

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2019, 06:58:37 AM »
At Loring what is the distance between the timing lights ??

in seconds? that depends how fast u are going :cool: :cool:


Offline Stainless1

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2019, 10:46:24 AM »
I thought they had them every 1/2 mile....  :stk:
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Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2019, 03:32:56 PM »
at 250mph it takes .36 of a second to travel 132' at Loring,, and 14.4 seconds to travel thru the one mile timers at Bonneville  :)
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Offline Ali123

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2019, 07:08:21 AM »
welll YEAH..... if ure in a hurry.

Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 05:07:41 PM »
Contemplation:- at Loring, from the getgo to backoff it's approx. 30 seconds total run time,,
 
                      :-  at Bonneville, with a two mile runup, and lets say you run thru to the three mile it takes approx.  60 seconds and on average + 14 seconds for every mile thereafter,,

(disclaimer, in no way do I intend to imply that one venue is better or worse,, my intent is to highlight the "real" differences between venues and the different applications required to achieve speed)

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Offline Landspeed Larry

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2019, 01:17:38 PM »
Two different activities done with similar but not identical motorcycles. One is acceleration and power oriented, other is aero and endurance oriented. Pick the one that appeals to you and is most convenient. After 40 years at Bonneville my choice is now pavement. Loring has two meets a year and takes one long day to get there. If it rains, you run the next day. Bonneville was three nights on the road and if it rains you go slow on a poor track or go home. Bonneville records are certified and their 60 year history means something. Loring has track records but no certification. What matters to you? To me it is trying to go the fastest in a category that I know my bike fits. In 2018 Mother Nature gave Bonneville a gift, a really good track. I think there were 8 vehicles that went 400+ and one 500. Motorcycles did nothing, not many came as years of poor conditions kept them away except in the slower categories. Fastest speed ever for a motorcycle (one that requires you to put your own feet down)is Joe Amo's 272. Probably never will be beaten. At Loring it is Bill Warner's 311. That may well be beaten by Shane Stubbs if not at Loring at the NM Spaceport with it's higher altitude. I really hate to say this but Bonneville will never return to its former glory, they took all the salt. It will be there to race on but not go fast on and some records will be broken. If you live east of the Mississippi give Loring a try; very nice people, well organized and they love the sport. I should include the ECTA who run in Arkansas, I haven't been there yet. 2020 coming up, I can't believe I'm still doing this.   LSL
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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2019, 02:12:57 PM »
^ Excellent! ^

Thank you for that well written and uniting post that to me speaks to the differences and considerations for racers.
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Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2019, 03:39:35 PM »
Thanks Larry, very well said,, your reply stole my thunder LOL,,

Have never raced at or even been to a paved event, but, have competited in Drag Racing at National events for over fifty years, so feel I have a little idea on what thay are about,,

Being that i'm in Australia we do not have the opptunity to run pavement events (there is a five mile long, 100yards wide smooth as a billard table paved airstrip in South Australia, it was set up as a emergency landing strip for the space shuttle project,, thay let tourists drive all over it, however wont let us race on it ) so our once a year only event is on salt Lake Gairdner,,

Have been to Bonneville many times as a crew member, and have competited there on a motorcycle at three events so salt is my speed fix,,
I'm an optimist when it comes to the conditions at Bonneville, it has always been dictated to by weather conditions, there have been many,many  events in it's 75+ years that have had to be cancelled due to conditions,, I would suggest that in the past when conditions on the salt were good thay 'were good", and one always bought their A game, however with the track conditions these days one has to factor in a B and C game plan and once thay get a handle on it we will see increased speeds,,

Salt (Bonneville, Gairdner) is a "Endurance" event,, Paved (Loring etc) is a "Sprint" event,,   = "Two separate identies"
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 06:37:04 PM by FlaminRoo »
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Offline knecum

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2019, 08:44:37 PM »
 If poor track conditions continue at Bville.  You can bring whatever game you want and if itís a very fast record youíre after you wonít achieve it or youíll get hurt trying. It just the facts about Bville now a days.

We were going to give the NM Spaceport a try but without any feedback from NA Naked bike racers or faired NA for that matter itís to much of a gamble for a handful of runs and just 2 days, 37 hrs of driving and variables concerning  weather/wind and altitude effecting our target goals. Itís very expensive to gamble when we should reach target at Loring 2x for the price of 1 entry.

Good luck to the Spaceport racers and if we can get some feedback maybe we will hit that next yr for the experience. Still canít see Bill Warnerís record in both 1 and 1.5 being beat for a very very long time. (On Pavement)

Offline scott g

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2019, 09:15:08 AM »
As we have come to expect, Larry has added quite a bit of information - enhanced by his well thought opinions - to the discussion.  Larry has almost as much experience on BOTH salt and Pavement as anybody, and he has a powerful understanding of the good and bad points of each.

My team has experience on the salt and on pavement, and holds several records at each.  Including TRACK records at Goliad, Loring, Maxton, Bonneville and Moultrie......

Here's a few of my observations:

Yes, there are weather problems with Bonneville, but it has several advantages.

Mother nature does most of the maintenance at no cost:  The winter rains bring more salt out of the mountains and deposits that salt into the low places on the track.  A little dragging, and one could have a 10 mile course for small cost.

When Bonneville is very good, the experience can be fabulous.  The track was very good in 2018 - and our sidecar rig went 320 mph....in 2019 the track was so bad we made ONE partial run and called it a season......

At Bonneville, there is nothing to hit, and that can be important when you have emergencies....

The traction at the salt is NEVER as good as on even 1940's concrete.

On Pavement, there is an abundance of traction.

A few weeks ago, Larry "Spiderman" McBride posted 264mph in the 1/4 mile at the Valdosta Georgia strip.  I watched most of Larry's runs, and can with assurance say that if he had the distance (and - as Larry and Steve know), the aerodynamics, and the longevity, he had the power to  hit 375mph.

Pavement tracks - for reasons I do not fully understand - have a BAD safety record.

As many as 10 riders have lost their lives on LSR pavement tracks since 1995 - all on solo bikes.

Since 1949 ZERO solo riders have died at Bonneville............

Records at Bonneville have a long history, and they have been maintained since 1949 - that's 70 years - with no signs of going away.  If you set a strong record there, you name will be in lights probably long after you have left the earth.

Records at paved venues wink out like bad Christmas tree lights. 

Many of the paved venues - where we all spent many resources to SET records - have closed their doors, and that history is either MIA or impossible to find.  NO history.

You pays your money ............................


Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2019, 04:50:49 AM »
If poor track conditions continue at Bville.  You can bring whatever game you want and if itís a very fast record youíre after you wonít achieve it or youíll get hurt trying. It just the facts about Bville now a days.

Tell that to the fastest four wheel folks and the sidecar, who, leading into the 2019 Speedweek event,  were looking at a track that was even better than that of 2018, then on Friday the rains came,,   
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 05:50:47 PM by FlaminRoo »
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Offline scott g

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2019, 11:43:04 AM »

Tell that to the fastest four wheel folks and the sidecar, who, leading into the 2019 Speedweek event,  were looking at a track that was even better than that of 2018, then on Friday the rains came,,


All is pretty true !

We ( the 320mph sidecar) had fit a larger, more powerful engine for this season.

On our first run on salt that was so bad we pulled off, the bike was 20mph faster
to the first timing light in 2019 over 2018 - a year of fabulous salt ! 

We assume that we would have maintained or increased our race pace compared,
and that might have put us close to the 350mph mark this year.

And than the rains came........

Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 03:43:37 PM »
The recorded fastest manned airplane is the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird at 2,193mph, the Shuttle went 17,500mph, and we have a block of flats hurtling around our world at 17,100mph,, so which is fastest, which can claim "Worlds Fastest" ??
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Offline scott g

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2020, 12:12:47 PM »
The recorded fastest manned airplane is the Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird at 2,193mph, the Shuttle went 17,500mph, and we have a block of flats hurtling around our world at 17,100mph,, so which is fastest, which can claim "Worlds Fastest" ??

Well, we might suppose it's all relative...............

If we are concerned with the center of the universe,
we might all be speeding away at millions of light years per hour.

We might be circulating the galaxy center at 1/10 that speed.

There would be the "escape velocity" of the earth,
and higher than that, we fly away into interplanetary space.

There might be speed for a person traveling UNDER the surface of the water.

Or the highest underwater speed of a self propelled person
under water - which would of course be divided into with and without fins.......

Offline ADMIN

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2020, 06:19:30 PM »
Free Fall speed record, hey how about the fastest deceleration?
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Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2020, 07:26:51 PM »
Fastest deceleration would be relivant to fastest acceleration into a solid object I guess LOL,,

I note a hint of welcomed jest towards my last post, but, if we take a look at the "Fastest" lists on this forum, comparasions can be made between machines/venues/application that parallel what I have posted concerning aircraft,,

The gulf between various machines/venues/application is extremily wide,, A "True" representation of "Fastest" can only be witnessed when thay are seen to be grouped into their relivant machine/venue/application brackets,,

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Offline ADMIN

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2020, 12:01:55 PM »
I appreciate and respect any official records of speeds. The experience and knowledge gained while reading this forum has helped many learn where they can see improvements on every level, and not just in competition.

Most of your readers will never make an official attempt, but are faster and safer because of your posts.

The deceleration was indeed a random tongue in cheek comment, thank you to my Aussie friend for acknowledging that lol

I mention Bill Warners speed in my sig because he rode a sit on hayabusa and was a very active and helpful member of this forum until his intimely death while competing. He was also a friend, I still have the personal messages from him. It all started with him thanking me for posting a photo of my GPS screen showing that they can have false readings. I had reset my top speed and rode a few blocks to a party, never going over 40 MPH. When I got home, it registered 318 MPH as my top speed.

I know someday someone here will surpass Bills speed with a sit on hayabusa. It may be on pavement, dirt, salt,  who knows? But it will be a bittersweet update to my signature my friends. I miss him posting here and competing, terribly. I am grateful for the enthusiasm and scientific approach to meeting his goals he shared with all of us.

We all acknowledge and respect any official record and appreciate the planning and hard work that goes with the achievements.

As always, thank you for sharing.

Be safe. Go fast.
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Online FlaminRoo

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2020, 04:54:28 AM »
As quoted, "The experience and knowledge gained while reading this forum has helped many learn where thay can see improvements on every level, and not just in competition,,

 I recently watched a video where Larry McBride seated on Shane Stubbs bike, in conversation with Shane about the bike and its performances in LandSpeed,, Larry mentioned going that fast on salt, to which Shane had to explain that his performances were on tarmac,,

 After 70+ years of LandSpeed racing on Bonneville the "General Public" immediately identify LandSpeed to salt (El'Mirage dirt),,

 In England up until very recent times, their running at various distances on airfields was always refered to as "Sprint Racing",,

 I would suggest that the tarmac events would be better served being Promoted as 1/2mile or 1 mile Sprint events,,

 Refering back to the quote at the beginning of this post, the "Improvement" would be seen in the two sports having their own distinct identity's making them easier for the general public to understand and also for sponsorship reasons
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Offline scott g

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Re: Distance between Timing Lights
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2020, 12:48:09 PM »
As quoted, "The experience and knowledge gained while reading this forum has helped many learn where thay can see improvements on every level, and not just in competition,,

 I recently watched a video where Larry McBride seated on Shane Stubbs bike, in conversation with Shane about the bike and its performances in LandSpeed,, Larry mentioned going that fast on salt, to which Shane had to explain that his performances were on tarmac,,

 After 70+ years of LandSpeed racing on Bonneville the "General Public" immediately identify LandSpeed to salt (El'Mirage dirt),,

 In England up until very recent times, their running at various distances on airfields was always refered to as "Sprint Racing",,

 I would suggest that the tarmac events would be better served being Promoted as 1/2mile or 1 mile Sprint events,,

 Refering back to the quote at the beginning of this post, the "Improvement" would be seen in the two sports having their own distinct identity's making them easier for the general public to understand and also for sponsorship reasons

I can fully appreciate your point of view about the lack of "distinction."

My best motorcycle speed (1300cc Hayabusa) was in the mile on pavement at 251.+++mph,
while my best CAR speed was 258.+++ mph with a smaller 1000cc engine at Bonneville.

When I am asked about MY best MOTORCYCLE speeds,
I emphasize that it was a "drag race."

Asked about my VERY best speed, I emphasize
it was a CAR with ONLY 1,000cc

It has been only in the last 15 years or so that pavement records
(in the class equivalent Bonneville class) have been faster that on the salt.

We largely didn't have public 1.0 and 1.5 mile "sprints" of great speeds until the
beginning of the ECTA in 1995 - so less that 15 years of competition.

Although it seems unlikely, what speeds on pavement would we see in the
Top Furl dragsters raced 5,280 feet instead of 1,000 feet ?