TIRES

[P. COOPER]

mcr2 "shootout" tire

[narider]

FiremanJim is correct. The LSR current rule readings(scta, ecta) state that the only tires approved for over 200mph are:
1. a shaved road race branded tires(good up to 250mph).
2. a LSR certified tire or tire certified by the manufacturer(which there are no such thing).

Motorhead, how did you go about shaving yours(or who did you have it done by)?

[THEMOTORHEAD]

nonono
in the salt they inspect tires after every 200 mph pass
there is no tire rated over 200 for bikes
the bt56j is rated in the 190s as it was oem spec on a machine capable of those speeds
zr i believe is speeds over 186 mph
15 min @180 190
thats 45 miles
thats a  long ass straightaway        
wait till ya try that with thet non intercooled   kit      

[GaryR]

I have tried the Mickey Thompson MCR street tire and it hook ok. The Shinko works much better and has allowed me to run as much as 40PSI of air on a properly prepped track. At that time, I was running 9.40-s and 9.50's. Neither one of these tires holds up on a dyno, they both crack badly-ouch!!!

[narider]

SHAVED PILOT SPORT HPX

How did you go about shaving this tire?

What SCTA or ECTA rules state are that a road race "branded" tire or a Z rated tire is good for 200mph. And a road race "branded" tire is good for an extra 50mph if shaved.
"Most manufacturers" state a "Y" rating as 186mph(which there are very few made) and "Z" rated tires as 149+ mph. The R in "ZR" ratings is simply stating it's a radial. Our busa has been 195+ on the salt and 205+ on the concrete naked(with no type of bodywork on it). I'm not concerned with street ratings but more-so with the LSR "rule book regs" and they state shaving the roadrace tires as being legal for where we are heading.

By the way, I mentioned your name and this site to Todd Brooks and he stated you are a very well respected man in the world of busa', sure nice hearing stuff like that about people in the industry - kudos to ya.

I'm simply wondering how to go about shaving the busa tires(as well as some V-rated tires to get over 150mph with them on the harley). The rear is no problem shaving as it could simply be a +50% worn tire, but the fronts are a little tougher to deal with. Any ideas?

[Hank]

You could have it done at Nate Jones Tire,or perhaps Nate could give you some ideas,as he does do it at his shop.562-597-3369.Long Beach,Ca.

[narider]

Thank you Hank, I'll give him a call tommorow.
Todd-

[THEMOTORHEAD]

oh ok
ya try nate ours worked fine as far as the shaved tires go
         

[tz750d]

At this point in the discussion, we can see the problem that both the SCTA (Bonneville), and the ECTA (Maxton) face:  There are no certified MOTORCYCLE tires that are "legal" for OVER 250 MPH.

And actually, according to the rules, the ONLY motorcycle tire that may be used OVER 200 MPH at either track is a "shaved" Road Race tire.  

That means that at either track, if you show up with a street tire, even shaved, that you could be protested and the records taken away IF you ran OVER 200 MPH. (Dennis, Hank, John, Larry....are you listening?)  I, of course would not make that protest, but I have heard at least one other well respected rider threaten to make that protest...

The reason that folks have been setting these high records (with the exception of Rich Yancy's bike)is that neither association is ENFORCING their own tire safety rules!

An interesting part of this is that the rules for BOTH racing acssociations, ECTA and SCTA allow a V rated tire (NOT a Z rated tire!) to be shaved to add another 50 mph of legal speed.  That means that a shaved Z reated tire is STILL "legally" good for 200 MPH.

A close examination of Jon Minnono's purpose built Bonneville "double tripple" Triumph of 256MPH fame shows, in it's later configurations, that the bike has CAR TIRES at both ends!  The particular tires Jon used are good for 300-350 MPH, and are probably as good as he needs, at least until they get both of the turbo Hayabusa motors into the frame for this year.

Let me hear you say.....1,000 HP

[SuperDave]

That's incredible!  1,000, Really?  Mind boggling.  Target speed?    

[Hank]

Interesting post Scott.I for one would welcome that protest.If for no other reason than to see the SCTA/BNI define and ENFORCE exactly ONE standard.I have not seen that so far.It has been a total crap shoot on both occasions I have been there.When the SAME person defines the SAME rule 3 different ways on 3 different occasions,it becomes a joke (unfortunatly) to attempt to satisfy the rules if they are going to define them on the fly.I certainly don't mind going out and trying to set another record with a "rule correct" motorcycle.The records are not important to me as you know.If knowledgeable and respected racers such as yourself,with no personal agenda to satisfy, were involved in the rule making process,on a regular basis,and perhaps took turns at the tech booth,I think this would be better for all the motorcycle racers.I am not saying that those who are doing it now are in any way less than qualified,but my experience has been "varied" to say the least. I for one would like to be part of the solution,and not the problem.I don't have enough experience to know what would be appropriate,but I am willing to help and learn in any way I could.

[Hank]

I also would like to know if you find a Mfg. that has a "off-the-shelf" set of leathers that will satisfy the purposed new leathers rule.Not all motorcycle racers are capable of 250+ speeds.I have seen almost total euphoria in Impound over 70mph runs.I wonder if the new leathers rule is really needed for them,or is just another $1500+ additional burden for racers with as much enthusiasm as anybody.I realise the risks are the same with the exception of those that become greater with more speed,and I also realise that leather "patches" could be sewn over the "offending" areas(if allowed by the powers that be),but at some point,like helmets,if they meet "outside" standards,they should be allowed.Perhaps submitted samples by the mfg's for board approval could provide a basis for a list of pre-approved leathers for use.End of rant(for now).

[narider]

I've tried Nate 3 days now with no answer and no recorder to leave a message(thanks again and I will try him again next week). I've left messages a couple other places and if nothing else am sure to find out something from some of the guys at the cinci show in a 3 weeks. Would really like to find a place on the east coast that we can promote via ECTA for racers to have an option.
Did find out two things so far.
1- Shaving a new tire does not effect(harden) the chemical makeup of the tire like wearing one down does(the heat buildup  in the proccess is minimal I guess).
2- You don't want to  do a search on tire shaving in google.com and expect a whole lot back concerning tires(especially if you're at work and they monitor your whereabouts    ).
TD
Anyone else have any names to drop on the east side of the country?

 

quote:Originally posted by Hank:
You could have it done at Nate Jones Tire,or perhaps Nate could give you some ideas,as he does do it at his shop.562-597-3369.Long Beach,Ca.

[Chainstretcher]

quote:Originally posted by MOTORHEAD:
nonono
in the salt they inspect tires after every 200 mph pass
there is no tire rated over 200 for bikes
the bt56j is rated in the 190s as it was oem spec on a machine capable of those speeds
zr i believe is speeds over 186 mph
15 min @180 190
thats 45 miles
thats a  long ass straightaway          
wait till ya try that with thet non intercooled   kit      Ya just seem to get there a lot faster with boost.  

[Hank]

Yikes! This one is after the last back-up pass at Bonneville during speedweek.
 

[tz750d]

Lookin at #8's rear tire                    

(I'd cover that thing up, too).

I have ridden that bike several times, and like Wayne, I've been Top Speed Vehicle of the Meet on Yancy's #8.

The older gentleman in the leathers is Wayne.

[narider]

Hank, we had a tire that chunked "much" worse on Busa Todds bike at Maxton(we believe it was caused by a "rubber"    valve stem that split). it looked like oil spray coming of the bike when he came thorugh the traps around 190 on it with no air in it.
 
 And the #8 bike... well, I wouldn't mind those pictures(along with any tire near that condition) dissappearing. His cover may not keep him so lucky(or work so well) next time.

[Hank]

quote:Hank, we had a tire that chunked "much" worse on Busa Todds bike at Maxton(we believe it was caused by a "rubber"  valve stem that split).  

This one "chunked" because it was used on the Dyno before it was raced on.I think it "heat blistered" under the surface,then chunked when it got to this point on the salt.

[narider]

quote:I think it "heat blistered" under the surface,then chunked when it got to this point on the salt.

Did you happen to check tire pressure and temperature while on the Dyno? I know that after every couple runs on the concrete with a tire similiar to yours I was shaving a 1/4"(i don't have to use millimeters here do I?        ) at a 45* angle where it would roll up across the patch area(right where yours and ours chunked) and we had stopped cutting them off the meet before that happened. But at the end of the run we also found where the stem sheared(we figure the stem went first which caused the tire to go as it's doubtful the tire going caused the stem to shear).  I think shaving is must on a tire with any tread reliefs cut between 45* & 90* across the tire patch. Brooks went from the Pilot Race to a Bridgestone after that episode I think? Maybe he could jump in here with the specific tires he's ran and what he thinks. Scott, what do you think about tire choices over 200(you've sure put enough miles on a multitude of tires over 200)? I still need to find a place that knows what they're doing to shave tires too(rule or no rule).

[doublebusa]

At bonneville I ran the bt56 with no problems. The tire still looks like new. At Maxton with the old style race pilots. the rubber was curling up on the cross tread area. I am now running the new semi slick tread design race pilot with no problems.    Todd B. Double Busa Racing

[Bergie]

post removed by request

[narider]

quote:Originally posted by RAC4IT:
post removed by request

Thanks, glad to see both of those posts gone  

[tz750d]

I'm still scared, I could have been on that bike with that tire!              

[Hank]

quote:Originally posted by TZ750:
I'm still scared, I could have been on that bike with that tire!    

[tz750d]

Yes Dennis, it does take a special frame of mind (and confidence in the builder of the bike)to put aside all thoughts of "now that I'm going 240 MPH, what happens if my rear tire blows?" and just keep the throttle OPEN!

Few of us have done it, and I hope we can all have a big 100th birthday party together and talk about how fast we were!

I'll bring the bourbon, wine and Geritol.