Fastest production bike officially?

[joea]

and another thing..........

I remember last year Noonan claimed the streamliners
were NOT bikes, bikes were something you get on and ride............
interesting how definitions change  

and by the f'd up logic you guys have calling a streamliner a
busa............

you all need to understand that the worlds fastest bike is a
ZX11.........thats right you fuccers still cant go as fast as a 20 year
old zx11..........the fastest two wheeled record is powered by ONE
zx11 engine............and Mr. TURBO powered..............

before that some harley had the record and before that Kawasaki KZ1000
powered went 318 record. over 336 mph one way..........

so basically you busa guys have been TRYING to go as fast as Kawasakis KZ 1000's, Harleys, and ZX11's...........................

Joe

[Got-Busa?]

the only certified "stock" runs were at Maxton with Muzzy's
zx12.........like it or not that is the only certified ie  a sanctiioning
body (Dolan) to accurately time it,  and a tear down later to prove
stock......190+mph

the Bonneville records are there for anyone to see:

http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/records/BNIrecs_bikes.htm

go down to 1350 cc and look for "P-P"  that is for production

BUT at Bonneville,  you are allowed UNLIMITED internal engine mods
as long as displacment is under class limit...........so the 201 record
was on a Busa with around 200 hp..........NOT stock by a long shot
ie high comp JE pistons, cylinder head Porting etc..........

whoever considers Guinness book a reputable authority on world land
speed records is as LAME as the book (there own entry says "reported to run as fast as xxx").............

Joe

joea,

Thank you......that is exactly my point!

Would it be worth taking a factory stock 99/00 Busa and making that record official or is it to late?  Seems like it would be a good idea to put this argument to rest if it is done!

One question though, Maxton is only 1-mile isn't it?  I would think either bike could go FASTER with a longer road!  1-mile really isn't shit for a stock bike IMO, don't get me wrong.....  

My thinking is all out TOP SPEED as in WFO for several miles to verify it will pull no more!  WFO from a stop and then slam on the brakes isn't real accurate if you ask me unless it bumps the limiter before and holds it all the way through the timing lights!?!!?

[TRNorBRN6001]

Ouch! A couple of green things and a Harley          

[TRNorBRN6001]

I do not think either bike (stock) can bump rev limiter in 6th, but I might be wrong.

[Got-Busa?]

I do not think either bike (stock) can bump rev limiter in 6th, but I might be wrong.

That is my thinking as well so......

....that isn't a true TOP SPEED!  It's only the max speed in 1-mile!  

[joea]

got busa,  yes it would be very interesting..........
even more so to have a stock zx12.......run them both

it would still not end the controversy............

we see stock busa's and zx12r all the time at Bonn.
they run the same speeds

and got busa..........sounds like you are destined for Bonn.
with your admirable view of what top speed is about.......

come on down,  you will love it...forevever

Joe

[Got-Busa?]

Just some things I am looking into if I get orders to Nellis AFB out in Vegas!  I had some ideas for a few new projects but who knows!?!?

If not that, I might be getting diverted to Florida.....anything fun there?  

[Hank]

Joe--I hope I am not included in this statement--

and by the f'd up logic you guys have calling a streamliner a
busa............

If so,please show me where I have ever said that.If not--in fairness to whom you are speaking about,who are you speaking about?

[02SE]

the only certified "stock" runs were at Maxton with Muzzy's
zx12.........like it or not that is the only certified ie  a sanctiioning
body (Dolan) to accurately time it,  and a tear down later to prove
stock......190+mph

the Bonneville records are there for anyone to see:

http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/records/BNIrecs_bikes.htm

go down to 1350 cc and look for "P-P"  that is for production

BUT at Bonneville,  you are allowed UNLIMITED internal engine mods
as long as displacment is under class limit...........so the 201 record
was on a Busa with around 200 hp..........NOT stock by a long shot
ie high comp JE pistons, cylinder head Porting etc..........

whoever considers Guinness book a reputable authority on world land
speed records is as LAME as the book (there own entry says "reported to run as fast as xxx").............

Joe

Joe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Scott Guthrie has the fastest speed for a stock Bike at Maxton, at 192+ mph. He had gone to a 1 tooth larger front sprocket (18 tooth), but since the Busa can't pull to redline in 6th gear anyway, it seems to me that would just slow it down.

The Muzzy runs were done on an extended course, from what people who were there have said. They started their runs well behind the normal starting line, and the finish line was past the normal finish line as well.

So they can't be compared to any runs made at Maxton during the official events.

And it was also interesting that that particular bike wasn't able to run anywhere near the same speeds, when it was delivered to Motorcyclist magazine to be tested.  Hmmm.  

[joea]

got busa,  either way,  ya gotta get to Bonn.

if in Vegas cool,  its close........

if in Fl.  cool,  you can hitch a ride with some old
fuccer down there.........take yer pick.........if you
travel through the south by car leave FL with a guy named
"Vincent" .............if traveling by plane leave Fl with a guy named
"Guthrie" get seat next to him..........either way by the time you
arrive you will be ready to have a unique interpretation to the rule
book,  and break some records..............

stay appraised of the www.landracing.com website
and if ya need any help dont hesitate to ask
 
if not racing,  someone always needs help.......carrying their
helmet, wrenching etc..........

jkamo@rushmore.com

Joe

[joea]

02,  I dont give a rats ass about course length..wa wa wa  

I was simply answering the guys questions with facts.........
the Muzzy runs were only ones I know of with stock bike,
that was later torn down to prove........

Hank, I am speaking out loud.......

if the shoe doesnt fit............(remember though, you fathered him
so do bear some of the burden)

"""I hope to make the fastest Motorcycle powered bike a Busa PERIOD!~~~~360 MPH! ! ! ! plus...           Mark my words.. """

freakin awesome John and Hank,  good job guys

remember the Worlds fastest bike is a Kawasaki........and the worlds fastest turbo is a MR. TURBO.............

this is the logic I am speaking of............

I fully understand that its not WHAT (brand, make etc) you have
its what you DO with it.........

and no I probably wont be any clearer on who I am speaking to or about.........I think you need to stop in Rapid City soon,   so we
can duke it out over dinner...........

Joe

[Got-Busa?]

got busa,  either way,  ya gotta get to Bonn.

if in Vegas cool,  its close........

if in Fl.  cool,  you can hitch a ride with some old
fuccer down there.........take yer pick.........if you
travel through the south by car leave FL with a guy named
"Vincent" .............if traveling by plane leave Fl with a guy named
"Guthrie" get seat next to him..........either way by the time you
arrive you will be ready to have a unique interpretation to the rule
book,  and break some records..............

stay appraised of the www.landracing.com website
and if ya need any help dont hesitate to ask
 
if not racing,  someone always needs help.......carrying their
helmet, wrenching etc..........

jkamo@rushmore.com

Joe

Joe,

Thanks for the info!  If things work out, I'll look you guys up, otherwise...it might be a few years before I get headed out that way for racing!

Josh    

[joea]

got busa,  Scott Barger at S&K racing in Dayton Oh is
a tremendous guy, who has helped us alot............make sure
you stop in there and check it out and say hi

Joe

[02SE]

joea wrote:

02, I dont give a rats ass about course length..wa wa wa SmileSmile

I was simply answering the guys questions with facts.........

As was I.    

[joea]

at least you admit that a stock zx12r was faster than a
busa at Maxton, and that the zx12r was torn down and verified
stock, and the busa was not, and that the 194 speed matches
the heresay for a busa in the Guinness book.............

Joe

[02SE]

at least you admit that a stock zx12r was faster than a
busa at Maxton, and that the zx12r was torn down and verified
stock, and the busa was not, and that the 194 speed matches
the heresay for a busa in the Guinness book.............

Joe

That's not what I said at all.

What I said, is that the Muzzy runs were done on a much longer course, then is used during official Maxton meets.

If you were to compare the muzzy runs, to the official runs at Maxton.
it would be like comparing a dragrace between the bikes. But instead of both bikes leaving the line from a standstill, one machine (12) would start 100 yds. behind the tree, and would accelerate as hard as it could over those 100 yds. When it reached the tree (by now doing approx. 100 mph), the other bike (Busa) would start it's run. When the timing traps came up at the end of the 1/4 mile, the Busas speed would be measured, and the 12 would be allowed to run a couple of hundred more feet down the course before it's speed was measured.

As you can see, you can't compare the runs. To do so, is ridiculous to say the least.  

The fastest stock bike, on the official length course, is Mr. Guthries runs on a Busa.

And the "stock 12's" runs were slower than the 194 listed in the Guinness book, at 193.??? mph.

It's close, but it's still slower.

And as I said, for some strange reason, the Muzzy 12 didn't run nearly as fast for Motorcyclist magazine, after the runs at Maxton.

It was almost enough of a difference, that some people might logically assume that the bike had some extra special "attention" from the Muzzy crew, that was no longer present when Motorcyclist got to test it. Hmmm.  

[joea]

riiiight.............

Joe

[hawkwind]

Here are some speeds of the kawka and busa as run on Lake Gairdner ( salt ) all the speeds below were achieved on production  as in OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR absolutly no modified engine parts , though both had their respective ECU's programmed to the riders specification

Kawasaki ZX 12R  192.250 mph Ron Whowell ( who was dieing of terminal cancer at the time of the run and is now passed away)2003

Suzuki Hayabusa   196.420 mph Grant Schlien  ( pro drag racer  retired ) 2004

both were one way runs and b oth speeds were taken at the 4 mile timer

the fastest I could get out of my stock bussa 99 model was again at Lake Gairdner  188.205 mph and it dynoed from memory around 162 rwhp

I have no bias as I run both a suzuki and a kawasaki  
Hawkwind

[jasontmc]

i ran sam hwangs stock(except for muzzy bonneville box) 04 zx12 to 188 or 189mph . the bike was gearted too tall. might have gone 1 or 2 mph with correct gear.

[SPEED KING]

I hope this will be the fastest bike period..Busa powered and a wave rotor to boot  !!

J

[Phantom13]

I agree 100% on the fact that this test needs to be done..


2 showroom machines tested over a long distance at the same time by the same rider.

Then modify both with pipes, filters, remap, gearing, etc and see how that effects them both.


Oh wait a min....someone did that over 3 years ago...who was it? Um...let's see...could it be Sportrider Mag Oct. 2001?

http://solo2.abac.com/avigdor/mags/sport%20rider%20oct01/Page.html

Here's the low down...

2001 model ZX-12R and Hayabusa

100% bone stock trim (with limiter)

BUSA- 183.9
ZX12R- 185.6


Full exhaust, air filter, remap, gearing, mirror removal
BUSA- 191.3
ZX12R- 193.5



ON PREVIOUS OUTING....with a slight tailwind as mentioned in article

100% showroom stock (unrestricted)

BUSA- 192.4
ZX12R- 190.2


Yes, the 99-00 Hayabusa's generally run a couple mph faster in showroom stock unrestricted trim than the ZX-12R's....but simply removing the mirrors on the 12R showed a 2mph gain (no gain for Busa). So essentially, they are equals if you take 4 screws in place of the mirrors on the 12R....all of which will cost you $0.30 and 2 min install time.

What I found interesting was how they found the 12R to be 2+mph faster than the Busa once modified and tuned accordingly.


As for Cloud's comment on a piped 12R not being able to do 199mph...I'll have to disagree...my bike has done a GPS indicated 199mph with an unopened motor, just pipe, filter, remap, gearing, removed mirrors. I've got a friend who also did 199mph on GPS with the IDENTICAL mods to mine.

No, this was not done in 1 mile from a standing start...but it was done in well under 1.5 miles. 1 mile from a standing stop isn't enough distance to allow the bike to fully stretch it's legs and gear the bike to hit the wall around peak power. When doing 1 mile runs from a standing stop, you've got to gear the bike to acclerate fast and hit revlimiter in 6th  just as you're crossing the finishline. This isn't the top speed of the bike...just the top speed of the bike in a set distance.

As for the Busa holding the production record at maxton...keep in mind this is NOT a showroom bike and even if it was (which it isn't) you've got to take into concideration the condition variables. The busa that set the record was not tore down and inspected from what I understand...so who's to say it was 100% showroom?

As for the Guiness Book of Records....they simply rely on some magazine's integrity as their proof. No certified timing lights with a tear down and inspection afterwards.... Hell, this is a magazine they are quoting...not a sanctioned organization. I have no idea why a book based on official results would use such an unoffical test as their proof.

Ok, I'm done. =)

[joea]

wonder what size the engines are during the scheduled Maxton
runs........oh thats right they dont measure engines..........the Muzzy runs
were certified by a land speed authority and engine measurement verified........

come on guys.......gotta keep the legend alive

John N.    there is little doubt that the Ack liner will be fastest
two wheeled machine, and busa powered.........good luck

I really wish EZ Hook could find some tires for this year though...............
its the only thing keeping them back..............low boost 338 mph one engine..........ya gotta love it.........

Joe

[02SE]

joea wrote:

wonder what size the engines are during the scheduled Maxton
runs........oh thats right they dont measure engines..........the Muzzy runs
were certified by a land speed authority and engine measurement verified........

come on guys.......gotta keep the legend alive

Joe, so basically you're questioning the integrity of Mr. Guthrie?.

Not cool, IMO. Don't be a hater.

That fact remains that Mr. Guthrie has the fastest speed for a stock bike at an official Maxton meet, on a Busa.

Several ZX-12 riders from this board acknowledge his accomplishments, why is it so difficult for you?.  

I'm only interested in the truth, and as has been previously stated, the Muzzy runs were done on a course that was much longer than the official course used during Maxton meets.

That means you can't compare the Muzzy runs, with any other runs at Maxton. That is the simple truth.

I like anything that is fast, hell, your own 16 year old Kawi is faster than most machines in the world.

I've owned several Kawi's in the past, I don't have a bias against any brand of bike.

I have numerous pictures of the EZ-HOOK streamliner, taken in the pits. In some of them, your brother is standing there as well.

And it is currently the fastest two-wheeled vehicle in existence. Does it matter that it's powered by a turbo ZX-11 motor?, no, it would be awesome no matter what engine it had.    
 

[joea]

02, I am a compassionate m'fuccr
seriously,  we dont need to agree on anything to coexist.........

we as most on here have more in common than otherwise,
but its a bit boring to see eye to eye all the time

the original question is """I just want to know if there is a factory PRODUCTION BIKE record at Bonneville or one of the other venues *certified as official*? """

the regular Maxton events DO NOT VERFY ENGINE ANYTHING............

it doesnt mean people cheat........not at all........its just the way it
is for various reasons

BUT for world recognition a means of verification is respected by most...
that is why FIM/FIA/SCTA do it, it ADDS credibility..........

why does Nascar/F1 or others bother measuring, surely you would
not question the integrity of Earnhardt, Labonte, etc......

so back to the original question,  the Muzzy runs are very credible,  I dont give a rats ass how far regular Maxton runs are, or how much ground Muzzy used,  I am simply giving the guy the closest answer to what he asked...............

as far as what powers what...........its just Banter..........when I see the many sheep claiming the busa this the busa that..........then for shits and giggles I throw in the Kaw this Kaw that.........nothing more than
entertainment.................winters are long sometimes.........gotta keep some kind of fires going............

and yes, a Kawasaki zx11 MR TURBO one engined powered liner is the worlds fastest two wheeled bike

(ps, I love all Hanks, Noonans, Ack's, and any other go fast stuff immensely)

Joe

[02SE]

Winter does suck.

See you at Bonneville.  

Brian.