Who uses the rear brake and why?

[Kirk]

Whenever I hear about someone using the rear brake, I remember all the trips to the I.C.U. I've made over the years in support of family members hoping that the rider will pull through. The ones that survived didn't seem to understand (until the moment that it happened) that the rear brake is simply the control for the ejector seat.

It also reminds me of stories of guys that "had to lay 'er down" after leaving a couple hundred feet of rubber off their rear tire in a perfectly straight line, terminating at the pile of motorcycle parts up against the side of the car that they hit. They could have simply used the front brake and stopped.

If you are not comfortable with the front brakes, you need to get comfortable. And I mean to the point of hiking the rear tire at any speed. Not big rolling stoppies, but threshold braking. The front brake is something that you cannot be timid with if you want to survive. When I used my Hayabusa on a road course, I was crushing the (front) brake lever about once a minute from the top of 5th (190 mph actual on my bike) hard enough to dance the rear tire all the way in, and I wasn't even thinking about it. I was looking for my turn-in point and a line that would allow me to pass as many other riders as possible. If I can do it, anyone can. This is not something that takes years and years of practice to develop. I was doing stoppies to the balance point about four months after I started riding. And my first bike was the Hayabusa.

You may not think that learning threshold braking is important, but the number one and number two threats to your life are cars turning left in front of you, and cars turning left in front of you. You may suddenly need this skill if you want to continue to live.

The rear brake serves no purpose other than to keep the bike from rolling at a stop light if you need to free up your right hand for a moment. You can use it a little if you're on a surface that won't allow enough weight transfer to make the front tire stick during braking (ice, snow, mud, grass, etc.) but otherwise, you're just asking for a high-side. Heck, there are MotoGP racers that don't feel skilled enough to attempt to use the rear brake.

[gsteve]

id like to hear more opinions.   im so much a rookie when it comes to this stuff , but i use the rear when coming up to a corner , just before getting into the front brake hard.  i use it during low speed manuvering , like in parking lots.  Ive read a fair bit rear brake talk from track day guys as well.

[THEMOTORHEAD]

then why do racers have a rear brake  
whys honda have linked brakes
i use 90% front last 26 years of riding and i do use rear about 10%proportion in semi slick conditions maybe more like 20%(live up north once)
remember racetrack and road conditions do not mimick eachother

[02SE]

Kirk wrote:

You can use it a little if you're on a surface that won't allow enough weight transfer to make the front tire stick during braking (ice, snow, mud, grass, etc.)

I use the rear for trail braking quite often. Because on the road, you often don't have enough traction to perform what amounts to a rolling stoppie either due to road conditions, or tires that don't have as much grip as an up-to-temp race tire, on a clean race track.

Practicing threshold braking (to the point of lockup) with the front brakes, is something every motorcyclist should do, for the reasons you stated.

But threshold braking isn't always enough. If you're able to skid the front tire without raising the rear tire, then you can benefit from using the rear brake to slow even faster.

There are many Moto GP racers that use the back brake. The thumb operated back brake became popular with many of the racers (pioneered by Mick Doohan, after he was no longer able to use his foot to operate the rear brake effectively) because it allowed them to use a bit of trail braking  in situations where they couldn't use the conventional rear brake pedal.

I have seen several Moto GP racer interviews wherein they stated they often used the rear brake to stabilize the bike, if they were right on the edge of doing a rolling stoppie, and the back of the bike was getting a little squirrely. And I have also seen several quotes from the racers, stating that they often use the rear brake as a form of traction control coming off of corners, and as an anti-wheelie device.

But I know where you're coming from, far too few street riders know how to use their brakes to maximum effect. And it's most often the cruiser crowd. Although I have seen several sportbike riders that didn't have a clue as well.  

 

[Kirk]

Braking is limited on a motorcycle by how hard you can brake (using the front brakes) while still keeping the rear wheel on the ground. The harder you brake, the more weight is transferred to the front wheel. Once you've got 100% of the weight on the front whee, the rear wheel comes off the ground. Once the rear wheel comes off the ground, there is nothing more that you can do to make the motorcycle stop faster. In fact, once the rear tire has no weight on it, touching the rear brake will only stop the rear wheel from spinning. And the only stability that the motorcycle has is from the gyroscopic effects of the rear wheel spinning. You have nothing to gain, and everything to lose from using the rear brake.

When cornering, your attention is divided by so many tasks. Adding rear brake usage to that is just asking for trouble. What typically happens is that when entering a corner, the rider using both brakes is transferring weight to the front wheel until the rear wheel locks up and skids sideways out from under you. In that instant, your brain makes the connection and as an instinctive reaction, you let go of the rear brake while the bike is banked over. The rear tire suddenly regains traction, and snaps the bike upright, catapaulting you over the high-side of the motorcycle. Like a buddy of mine that ended up with his helmeted head wedged between the tire and fender of an oncoming Ford Explorer.

[Greg]

then why do racers have a rear brake  

Exactly... I don't know how much you've raced on road corses.. but the rear brake comes in very handy... once you learn how and when to use it, you'll use it all the time.  

Which Motogp racers don't use the rear? I would be surprised to see if any of them didn't.

[Kirk]

then why do racers have a rear brake  

Because rules require it, Mr. Smarty-pants. If someone snaps off my front brake lever coming off of grid, I'm gonna need something to try to get it stopped when I get down to the end of the front straight.

whys honda have linked brakes

Ever try to ride a Honda fast with linked brakes? It's about as handy as these new cars that lock the doors for you when you put the car in gear.

remember racetrack and road conditions do not mimick eachother

Fair enough. But braking skills transfer directly. My braking for turn one is exactly like a car cutting me off when I'm doing 190 mph.

[smiddy1]

 OH MY GOD, KIRK. I can't believe this is comming you of all people. Yes, you are correct in that if you stand on the rear brake (lock it up) you could get in a world of trouble! For that point it would be the same with the front. I use the rear to settle the ass down a bit, slide the back out a lil', it's not that hard. True the front can carry 100% of the braking load, but you don't have the control you would with both. Take the braking load off the tire the more cornering load you can put on it. Sounds like you just like to grab a handful and be done with it.

You may not think that learning threshold braking is important, but the number one and number two threats to your life are cars turning left in front of you, and cars turning left in front of you. You may suddenly need this skill if you want to continue to live.

In some casses this is true, most it's not. I would think practicing avoidance skills would help just as well.

Heck, there are MotoGP racers that don't feel skilled enough to attempt to use the rear brake.

I'm sorry, gotta call bullshit.

The thumb operated back brake became popular with many of the racers (pioneered by Mick Doohan, after he was no longer able to use his foot to operate the rear brake effectively) because it allowed them to use a bit of trail braking in situations where they couldn't use the conventional rear brake pedal.

Wrong, they use it cause they more control (feel), and faster reaction.

[Greg]

Ever rode a dirtbike? When you jump it, if you need the front higher.. you gas it, if the front needs to come down, you hit the rear brake. same thing applies to a streetbike on the very edge of braking limitations.. Like you said earlier, if your rear tire is up.. it won't slow you down, but you can apply more force to the front by hitting the rear brake, pushing the front down.

now a proerly set up bike shouldn't be pulling a stoppie on a racetrack, it should be skimming the back tire, which in that case, the rear brake will help as a direct contact to the ground.

Whew.. my head hurts

[xnight]

I sometimes forget that i have a rear brake.......front brake does all my stopping, mind you, i'm only a street rider.

[Kirk]

Quasar- It's okay, no offense taken. You are right that there are situations where nothing is going to save you, but there are tons of situations where people could have survived if they had a better grasp of the dynamics of braking.

I grew up on dirt bikes. I'm no stranger to using the rear brake or to backing it into corners. I backed my Hayabusa into turn 9 at PIR, but it was using the OEM slipper clutch, not the rear brake.

[Kirk]

now a proerly set up bike shouldn't be pulling a stoppie on a racetrack, it should be skimming the back tire, which in that case, the rear brake will help as a direct contact to the ground.

Whew.. my head hurts

"Skimming", "Stoppie", whatever. Either way it's 0% of the vehicle's weight on the rear tire. Any braking force at that point is going to lock up the rear tire.

[Kirk]

:

You may not think that learning threshold braking is important, but the number one and number two threats to your life are cars turning left in front of you, and cars turning left in front of you. You may suddenly need this skill if you want to continue to live.

In some casses this is true, most it's not. I would think practicing avoidance skills would help just as well.

Threshold braking is an accident avoidance skill. And there is no arguing that cars turning left in front of us are our biggest risks. It's a fact.

[atticdog]

I always use the rear brake if there is anything slick on the road like sand
like when coming to a stop at a corner . I would rather the rear tire slide than the front on oil or sand

[atticdog]

also if your brakeing so hard that you are on the front wheel you prolly will be just about stopped when the rear wheel hits back on the ground so i dont think it will make much difference if the rear is locked up
I have locked up my rear many times on purpose and never thought i was going to loose control.

[smiddy1]

:

You may not think that learning threshold braking is important, but the number one and number two threats to your life are cars turning left in front of you, and cars turning left in front of you. You may suddenly need this skill if you want to continue to live.

In some casses this is true, most it's not. I would think practicing avoidance skills would help just as well.

Threshold braking is an accident avoidance skill. And there is no arguing that cars turning left in front of us are our biggest risks. It's a fact.

If stoping in a strait line is your only avoidance skill you wish to use you're headed for trouble. Brake, escape, and live. I'm telling you this to keep you alive. There are alot of other risks out there, believe me. Cars turning in front of you should be expected! 5-6 years of street experience, Just listen to some of us.

[02SE]

The thumb operated back brake became popular with many of the racers (pioneered by Mick Doohan, after he was no longer able to use his foot to operate the rear brake effectively) because it allowed them to use a bit of trail braking in situations where they couldn't use the conventional rear brake pedal.

Wrong, they use it cause they more control (feel), and faster reaction.

That is also another reason why they use it, which I should've mentioned.

But the fact remains, that it was because of Mick Doohans leg injury that the thumb operated back brake came into use. And the racers also like it because it allows use of the back brake when the bike is leaned heavily to the right, and the foot is up on the peg and unable to reach the foot lever.  

[Twisted]

I feather the rear to slow the drivetrain when I enter a corner cuz I dont have a slipper, or sometimes I trailbrake a tad when I want to settle down in a turn, the front brakes want to stand the bike up, sometimes when its rough or tansitional I will feather the rear....

[WWJD]

everyone I have ever chased thru highspeed twisties, everybody at the trackdays, even the instructors at the classes I have taken [msf and track] have pounded into my head the front break is your only friend.  I use front about 99% of the time, and that last 1% I'm just practicing using the rear break less.   Yes, you DEFINITELY should know how to use both and get a feel for that cuz when you get there you will realized the rear is MOSLTY useless.  Not totally.  I use rear a LOT in winter because there is so much sand and other crap on the ground the front locks and slides out.  but for normal riding, front front front.  But KNOW both.    Rear obviously can help out but everything I've heard and read from lots of experienced people say go with the front.  Even those Twist of the Wrist books say:

"overusing the rear brake is so common as to be almost a fast of life.  Many riders and racers have given up using the rear brake for hard braking."

HARD BRAKING.  Exactly.  Sure, when putzing around, use the rear if ya feel like it.  Personally, when putzing around, I AVOID the rear just to enforce the habit.  I ride with my right toes on the peg track style and just leave it.    Except on crapped up winter roads.    There's my $.75 worth  

[smiddy1]

The thumb operated back brake became popular with many of the racers (pioneered by Mick Doohan, after he was no longer able to use his foot to operate the rear brake effectively) because it allowed them to use a bit of trail braking in situations where they couldn't use the conventional rear brake pedal.

Wrong, they use it cause they more control (feel), and faster reaction.

That is also another reason why they use it, which I should've mentioned.

But the fact remains, that it was because of Mick Doohans leg injury that the thumb operated back brake came into use. And the racers also like it because it allows use of the back brake when the bike is leaned heavily to the right, and the foot is up on the peg and unable to reach the foot lever.  

So are you saying that before the thumb brake, when turning right they didn't use the rear brake (while leaned over)? I guess they would have the bomb on a nascar track.

[02SE]

smiddy 1 wrote:

So are you saying that before the thumb brake, when turning right they didn't use the rear brake (while leaned over)?

When you are cornering hard, you have the front part of your foot up on the pegs for clearance, and to better control your weight distribution on the bike. Under those circumstances, you can't get your foot down on the peg to reach the rear brake pedal.

[Steve A]

I use it (and the front) primarily because I started riding on stuff that only had rear brakes.  Whizzer, Cushman and Mustang (although the Mustang had a front brake, it was pretty ineffectual).  The Harleys and Indian Chiefs had front brakes also, but, they were also in the class of the Mustang and so you learned to use the rear brake.  

Most of the English bikes - of that time - had relatively weak front brakes, the Vincent was about the only one that really seemed pretty good.

[THEMOTORHEAD]

point is rely on yer front brakes
point 2 because yer expert road racer does not mean yer an expert street rider
after 25 years straight on the street and 10,000 miles a year (local riding)
i have found fronts 90% of all my braking  accapt in questionable road conditions
on the freeway i do not jjust jam on th front binders(less ya wanna die like a retard)remember wind will help slow ya down alot
i sit up and scrub speed off as well as applying brakes silmiltanously.
racetracks dont have alot of loose shit on the road like up here

[Altec]

First of all, this topic should really be split into two categories: one for everyday normal street riding and one for track riding.  As I have never ridden track I can not accurately speak for why racers may or may not want to use their rear brakes on the track however I can speak about the street riding portion.

Realistically, when talking about straight line stopping as an avoidance skill anyone that only uses their front brakes should be considered foolish at a minimum.  Anyone that thinks their front brakes provide 100% of their stopping power, should go back to school and retake some mathematics classes.

Front brakes only account for 100% of your stoppnig ability if you either (a) negate the fact that you have a rear break or (b) it is the only brake you apply at that point in time.  

The FACT is, the front brake is only accountable for 80% of the total stopping  power of the motorcycle.  The rear the remaining 20%.

This leads to two methods of interpretation (glass is half empty/full kind of thing) at this point.  In the emergency situation where you are only using the front brake you are immediately robbing yourself of this stopping power.  For many more casual street riders this can certainly mean the difference between life and death.  As the rear break is designed as a control mechanism to be used for both balance and direction under these circumstances.

If you want to take the optimistic approach (glass is half full), congratulations!  You just added 20% to your chance of having an accident.

Now don't get me wrong and think that I'm against the "rely on your front brakes" campaign.  I'm not.  I am a firm believer in using them and that every rider should continue to hone their skills.

Since someone else mentioned crash avoidance skills, I just thought I would mention the issue of Engine Braking.  Everyone knows how to downshift and how to do if fast and most everyone here can speed down 2 or three or four gears if necessary, but I've seen a lot of casaul, weekend warrior riders that have no concept of using engine braking in combination with their normal front/rear braking as a crash avoidance skill.  I've also seen guys go down to many and get get thrown forward in the seat and have the rear start to come around on them.  (Using you rear brake will control that.)

even the instructors at the classes I have taken [msf and track] have pounded into my head the front break is your only friend.

I just went through the MSF class this past fall and the only thing they evangelized was using the front and rear in tandem.  Maybe the Advanced MSF teaches something different???  I am considering becoming an instructor which is why I know this / was there.

[YAG]

I don't use the rear brake at all in hard braking... around town stuff sometimes, but I try not to because I don't want it to be an automatic panic thing that I develop.  Usually I use it if I am on some kind of a loose road surface to avoid the front end letting go on me... would much rather have the back skid a little than the front

25k miles on my bike and I just replaced the rear pads for the first time last night... that should say how much I use the rear brake.