Haybusa Parts and Service Member Support

Author Topic: Busa at the Track  (Read 10873 times)

Offline Fast40th

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« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2005, 04:15:09 PM »
Get that stock chain off there before you regret it!

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2005, 07:59:20 PM »
Why? What's to regret about it?
-Kirk

Offline L.A. Don

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« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2005, 09:27:25 AM »
Quote from: Kirk
Why? What's to regret about it?


Yeah, what's wrong with the stock chain?  :?:

Offline Mospeada

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« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2005, 10:16:16 AM »
Quote from: Kirk
Now get your head down and to the inside, and you'll pick up a ton of ground clearance. ;)


Yeah, I know, I looked at this photo and even I am thinking I can get lower and more forward. This shot was taken at Willow Springs, big track, turn #2, at almost 100 mph. Probably the fastest, right hand 180 sweeper in the west coast.

Yup, Willow Springs. We also have Streets, Buttonwillow, Pahrump (awesome technical track), and Fontana (infield and AMA). Heading out to Fontana AMA track on March 26 through Fasttracks ( http://www.fastrackriders.com/pages2/index.html ). Big Willow is the fastest average speed, however at Fontana AMA, you're in the infield course, until it dumps you out onto the Nascar straight at about 50-60 mph. From there, you floor it for 3/4 of a mile, hit the brakes HARD, then swoop through a chicane. Busa's will generally see about 160-170 by the time they slow down.

Fucking love it. Just live for it. Another shot of the bike...

Take off like a 13, flick it like a 6

Offline eddie j

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« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2005, 12:22:13 PM »
Kirk, L.A. Don, and anybody else what tips do you have for a first timer doing a track day. I have a lot of experience riding and dragracing  and have ridden some twisty roads including Deal's Gap but I have never put a knee down or been on a racetrack with curves.  I would appreciate any advice offered. I also don't want to spend any money on my Busa other than new tires for the first outing. My suspension and wheelbase are stock.

Offline Mospeada

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« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2005, 01:52:08 PM »
Do not hang way off the bike. Rather, swivel around the tank, but not much, then stick your knee out as you see fit.

Keep your elbows bent, and be light on your grasp of the handle bars, don't clench the grips, not necesary.

If you have time, reverse your shifting and never go back.

Now this is the part that takes practice. Spend lots of time practicing shifting up and down, as fast and smoothly as possible. What I do is I start pressing on the shift lever, pull in the clutch a little, shift, then let go of the clutch. The key is SPEED. Get faster and faster at it. After a while, you'll start to be able to perfectly downshift WITHOUT blipping the throttle so it's very smooth and very fast. Practice this when you tooling around town and so. It's almost instantaneous.

Do lots of track days (after one, that's all you'll live for) and do attend a school. I've done about 2 dozen track days, thought I was Captain Badass because I am one of the faster guys in and through the corners on my Busa in the Advanced category, never mind the straights. Then I went to Jason Pridmore's Star school, and learned I was doing a LOT of bad habits, one of which was hanging off too much.

There are hundreds of little things. But practice practice practice that SMOOTH and SPEED shifting, makes a massive difference. When you're slow to shift, all sorts of things can bite you in the ass.

Oh, and at least get you suspension set up. Any cycle shop can do this for about $25.
Take off like a 13, flick it like a 6

Offline eddie j

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« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2005, 03:20:21 PM »
thanks

Offline foresteronw

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« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2005, 03:23:48 PM »
So how many people look at you like you're nuts bringing a Busa out there.  I told my buddies that I ride with on the street that I'm going to and they keep telling me I'm not going to have fun with it out there.  They are just Busa haters though..lol

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2005, 04:48:08 PM »
Quote from: foresteronw
So how many people look at you like you're nuts bringing a Busa out there.  I told my buddies that I ride with on the street that I'm going to and they keep telling me I'm not going to have fun with it out there.  They are just Busa haters though..lol


When I showed up for my novice school on my Hayabusa among a forest of Gixxers, it caused quite a bit of discussion.

First off, they didn't know where to put me. They usually put SV students with SV instructors, 600 students with 600 instructors, and so on. They ended up putting me in a catch-all group for various bikes that were not well-suited to the track, and riders who were not real serious about it. Some of them were not very fast. A guy on a Super Chicken threw it down about three feet in front of me after just a few laps. A girl kept wobbling dangerously close to others in our group.

Then the corner workers all moved back about a hundred yards, mentally calculating how far in a bike that big and fast could auger in. They talked about how many of them it would take to pick it up.

 After I'd completed the requirements of the class,  I hooked up with a faster instructor and he gave me a tow. We came back in and he told me that he couldn't keep up with me, and I needed to find a faster instructor.

We graduated at noon and got some lunch.

At this point, I still hadn't pulled the trigger. For the first afternoon practice session (for the big bikes), we all headed out. I got some clear track and put my head down, passing a number of bikes in the corners and on the brakes. When I came around for my first flying lap at speed, I painted a big darkie out of the last corner onto the 3/4 mile long front straight, got under the paint, and frickin' lit the after-burner. It looked like the other bikes were parked on the front straight as I went past. There were not a lot of people watching along pit wall, as it was just a novice practice session. The engine hit the limiter in 5th (about 190 mph actual with my gearing), and I sat up and crushed the brake lever, snapping off two down-shifts before pitching it into the first corner. The next time I came around, there was a solid wall of people standing on the pit wall, watching. I had to take a different line because I was passing so many people with such a high speed differential. The traditional racing line is to drift out towards the outer wall, away from the pit wall. I had to square off the corner and stay to the inside (near the pit wall), blow past everyone, and then after passing the last bike, move over on the brakes into the racing line to set up for turn one. I was told later that the announcer talked about nothing else, and people along pit wall were stunned. I watched video later that made my bike look like a stinger missle fired down the front straight along side the other bikes.

When I came back in, I could hardly get into my pits for the crowd of people there. Everybody had questions and wanted to look at the bike. We did one more practice session, and then had our races.

They gridded me up in the #1 spot. At the green, I let the clutch out and screwed the throttle on, trying to keep the front end down. I made the 1-2 upshift with the wheel in the air and carried it about 6" off the ground until my 2-3 upshift. As I set up for turn one, I realized that nobody else was in front of me, and that meant that I had to be in the lead. I thought maybe the race was red-flagged and I just missed the flag, but I kept checking at every station, and there were no flags. As I came around onto the front straight for the first time, I could see people cheering along pit wall. I figured I'd get passed on the brakes into turn one. But I didn't. So I led for another lap. On the third lap, I was suprised to come out onto the front straight and see another bike in front of me. But he hadn't passed me- he was a lapper. I blew past him doing about 70 mph more than he.

Anyway, didn't mean to type so much, but I hope that gives you an idea.
-Kirk

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2005, 05:02:32 PM »
Quote from: eddie j
Kirk, L.A. Don, and anybody else what tips do you have for a first timer doing a track day. I have a lot of experience riding and dragracing  and have ridden some twisty roads including Deal's Gap but I have never put a knee down or been on a racetrack with curves.  I would appreciate any advice offered. I also don't want to spend any money on my Busa other than new tires for the first outing. My suspension and wheelbase are stock.


Well, then just screw your fork preload in all the way, and adjust the front compression adjusters about half way between where the owner's manual says that they should be and full stiff. This is an attempt to keep the forks from bottoming out any harder than they have to.

Set your rear sag, adjust your rebound front and rear. That doesn't cost anything. Adjust your tire pressures to about 32psi front and rear for starters, and go from there.

Fresh brake fluid wouldn't be a bad idea.

Remove your mirrors and put a zip wrap through the holes on each side to hold the fairing.

Make sure your visor is clean and your levers and stuff are adjusted the way you want them to. Clean and lube your shifter pivot. Lube your chain.

Start out in the C-group. You can always move up to a faster group if you are too fast to fit well. Try not to get sucked into going faster than you want to.

There is probably some instruction available at the track. Two different kinds- track stuff, and riding stuff. The track stuff is the flags and where to enter and exit the track and stuff like that. The riding stuff is probably a sit-down in group form with the instructors. Ask lots of questions. Make a friend. Ask the instructors to give you a tow for a couple of laps, and then to follow you for a couple of laps. Then come in and get some feedback from them. Try to work on one thing at a time.

Buy a picture of yourself at the track. You pretty much gotta do it.

Don't forget to take care of yourself. Drink more water than you think you need to. Sit down and rest up in the shade. Don't spend all your free time between sessions walking around in the sun in your leathers.

Don't forget to put gas in the bike. The tank doesn't need to be full. A half tank should be fine, just use your gas jug to replace what you've used each session so that the bike responds the same.
-Kirk

Offline eddie j

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« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2005, 05:31:01 PM »
what tires do you recommend? I prefer to use a street compound.

Offline Mospeada

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« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2005, 05:48:52 PM »
180/55 Rear tire. Although I'm having great performance out of a RennSport 190/55, which is the same profile but bigger.

M1's
Pilot Powers
Super Corsas
208gp Dunlops
 
....to name a few.
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Offline eddie j

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« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2005, 05:54:27 PM »
thanks I already use a 180 rear-currently running Dunlop 208's front and rear. Might try the pilots.

Offline foresteronw

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« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2005, 06:05:11 PM »
Kirk,

That got me pumped up and I wasn't even there.  I'm going to try and get to a track day this year, I hope it all works out with my schedule.

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2005, 06:59:18 PM »
There are at least three different variations of the Dunlop 208, and I'm talking about casing construction, not tire compounds. The 208ZR is the street compound tire, and it sucks. The U.K. made 208GP is a DOT legal race compound tire, available in a 190/60. It also lacks a cirumferential belt, making it unstable and allowing it to grow at speed, sometimes to the point of rubbing on the swingarm and smoking in high gear. The U.K. made 208GP is also the one that's been exploding and causing riders to suddenly become pedestrians at 170 mph or so. The third one is the U.S. made 208JLB DOT legal race compound tire, available in a 180/55, and I don't know enough about it to comment.
-Kirk

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2005, 07:01:37 PM »
The Pirelli Supercorsa and Metzeler Rennsport are identical tires (except for slight cosmetic tread variations) and are DOT legal race compound tires. They used to be marketed in a street compound, and were hands-down the best street tire ever made, but they quit making them.
-Kirk

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2005, 07:03:59 PM »
The Michelin Pilot Power is a street tire. They are also French, so you never know when they are going to give up. The president of our association tried a set on his Blackbird for track days, and he said they worked great, right up to the point that they didn't. His bike was totalled, and he lost thousands and thousands of dollars.
-Kirk

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2005, 07:07:52 PM »
I think the Pirelli Diablo and Metzeler Sportec M1 are identical tires, marketed under two different brand names. I've ridden behind Twisted when he was using a set of M1s, and I would say that he was an A-group rider on B or C group tires. I think they are a good tire, but I wouldn't try to go race pace on them.

The Diablo Corsa is a track day tire that you can ride on the street, but it's a big giant step back from the Rennsport/Supercorsa. It's a B-group tire.
-Kirk

Offline L.A. Don

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« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2005, 07:18:08 PM »
Quote from: Mospeada

Yup, Willow Springs. We also have Streets, Buttonwillow, Pahrump (awesome technical track), and Fontana (infield and AMA). Heading out to Fontana AMA track on March 26 through Fasttracks ( http://www.fastrackriders.com/pages2/index.html ). Big Willow is the fastest average speed, however at Fontana AMA, you're in the infield course, until it dumps you out onto the Nascar straight at about 50-60 mph. From there, you floor it for 3/4 of a mile, hit the brakes HARD, then swoop through a chicane. Busa's will generally see about 160-170 by the time they slow down.


Mospeada, I wanted to sign up for that track day, but it was full.   :cry:   I guess I'll have to go on the 25th (Friday) instead.   :D

Offline HRB

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« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2005, 07:37:00 PM »
Seems to me that the silver/silver 02s are more track worthy.... (Road America 2004)  :D



A couple years ago at Road America (2002)



And my best advice for running at a smaller track (Blackhawk 2003), UPGRADED BRAKES!






Got the video of the crash.....  Busa was simply too heavy and too fast for a small track for the stock brakes...
89 GSXR 750/1216

In memory of Gman

Offline L.A. Don

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« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2005, 07:43:05 PM »
Yeah, it's common knowledge that the 02 silver/silver is the fastest Busa ever made.   :P

Offline Kirk

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« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2005, 07:46:27 PM »
Thanks for the pics, HRB. :)
-Kirk

Offline L.A. Don

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« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2005, 10:00:20 AM »
Quote from: eddie j
Kirk, L.A. Don, and anybody else what tips do you have for a first timer doing a track day. I have a lot of experience riding and dragracing  and have ridden some twisty roads including Deal's Gap but I have never put a knee down or been on a racetrack with curves.  I would appreciate any advice offered. I also don't want to spend any money on my Busa other than new tires for the first outing. My suspension and wheelbase are stock.


Just make sure you have good tires and do an oil change.  If someone can setup your suspension to your specs, that is a plus.  However, based on what you are saying, I don't think you will push the limits of the stock Busa on your first track day.

Just go and have fun, but RIDE WITHIN YOUR LIMITS!  If people are passing you, don't sweat it, continue to ride your pace, you will get better with time and instruction.  Eventually, you'll be doing the passing.

I used to street ride with fellow Busa owners here in Los Angeles and I was one of the slowest.  I was almost always last in the group, but I continued to ride at my own pace.  After going to many track days and the Superbike School I am MUCH faster now.  So the bottom line is... stay within your limits and you'll improve.

Lastly, bring ALOT of water to stay hydrated and drink it even if you don't feel like you are sweating.

Offline Mospeada

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« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2005, 11:25:12 AM »
Quote from: L.A. Don

Mospeada, I wanted to sign up for that track day, but it was full.   :cry:   I guess I'll have to go on the 25th (Friday) instead.   :D


Yeah, I've noticed that the weekend ones tend to fill up fast. You could try signing up in anything available, such as advanced, and then get out there. Then tell them "hey, i made a mistake, can you stick me in intermediate?" Or vice versa.

Either way, you'll have a blast. We'll be out there Friday night camping in the Nascar garages. You gotta love these 5 star Nascar tracks.
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Offline foresteronw

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« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2005, 11:35:43 AM »
There is a guy that does track days up in New Hampshire.  From what I'm told he puts on a real good day, has tons of food and more water/gateraid than you can consume.  He has a bunch of instructors on site as well.  Three groups like you were saying, and you're only allowed to move up one level in a day.  He does a couple of instruction laps and from there you are on your own unless you want help then you get one on one help.  There aren't any races though because of liability issues.  Tight tracj though, no real long straights which is fine (my buddy on a CBR600RR bone stock said he maxed out a 120 or so indicated).