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Author Topic: More on the Pair mod  (Read 5916 times)

Offline oilheadron

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More on the Pair mod
« on: April 06, 2005, 11:27:10 PM »
I was yacking with the M4/Emgo guys again yesterday and they said that the Pair mod helps minimize ring flutter, improving the ring sealing as a result (ring sealing, not necessarily ring seating like during break-in). Then I thought well maybe that's one reason why my '99 still doesn't use any noticeable amounts of oil after 40k miles (better control of the oil rings; it does have oil rings, right??).
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Offline gsteve

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2005, 09:13:09 AM »
Interesting.... Ill be putting on my pipes soon, I was planning to remove the pair?????      Anyone have opinions?
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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2005, 12:40:26 PM »
...the PAIR mod has some benefits, however some guys over at Gixxer.com have found the valve needs to be pulled apart and cleaned every so often as oil crudes up and can affect the operation of the valve. Thus, for peace of mind, alot of people say junk it...its not worth the worries for the minor gains it gets you.....
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Offline oilheadron

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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2005, 01:24:42 PM »
I'm planning to do back-to-back-to-back tests on this as soon as the dyno is set up. We'll make the runs as consistent as possible.

Cookie, what year is the bike in your photos? Also, is there a crimp in one of those hoses???  (J/K about the crimp  :P )
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Offline oilheadron

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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2005, 01:41:11 PM »
Will do whatever the results are.
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Offline GeorgeC

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2005, 02:13:17 PM »
Been thinking of trying this myself...  Crankcase evac systems do most definitely work, but I really have to wonder if the PAIR valve can pull enough vacuum to make it worthwhile...

IMO, you would need to see at least 3-4in. of vacuum in the high RPM range to see any benefit.
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Offline GeorgeC

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2005, 03:55:55 PM »
Quote from: Cookie
Quote from: GeorgeC
 really have to wonder if the PAIR valve can pull enough vacuum to make it worthwhile..

If you know someone with the system or finally try it yourself, just take the oil filler cap off while the engine, place your palm over it while it is running to feel the pressure.


Pulling a little vacuum at idle is totally different than being able to do so at 10500 rpm though...

I went through the whole electric scavenge pump on my race car a few years back, and never found it to be worthwhile.  That was a 382cid engine, vs. a 1300cc engine, so again, it may indeed provide some benefit.  This is still new ground for me.  One thing that would be interesting (in addition to dyno testing this mod), would be hook a vacuum gauge up to the crankcase during a dyno run, and see what kind of reading you get.

I think I'll try it, since I still have the PAIR valve, and it's really simple to do.  I believe it would be easy enough to switch back and forth at the dragstrip, and see what kind of back to back differences there are.
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Offline GeorgeC

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 03:58:53 PM »
Quote from: nomrlz
just about every top race class uses em.  from nascar to pro-stock, if it didn't work they wouldn't use it.


ps. those moroso pumps are like $700


Yep, and those Moroso pumps can pull 18in/hg of vacuum on a 700hp engine too...  Most all out racecars like that are using a dry sump oiling system, with the scavenge pump essentially being a part of the whole equation.

I just don't think the PAIR valve will have enough "oomph" to make a real repeatable difference, but again I do have an open mind, and will try it myself.  8)
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Offline Steve A

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2005, 04:19:54 PM »
Pair "mod" will pull about 4 to 7 inches of vac.  Nothing like the pumps but enough to make a difference.  Several people have done the dyno test and most say anywhere from 1 to 5 HP.  I'm sure it helps with the ring sealing and cuts the "pumping loss" somewhat.

I've got mine done that way, still have stock exhaust, and think it is worthwhile.

If you still have a pair valve, try it.  I probably would not go to the effort of reinstalling one just to try.
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Offline GeorgeC

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 04:46:20 PM »
For a potential 5hp, I don't mind putting the PAIR valve back on...  :wink:
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Offline Busa@11K

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 06:38:48 PM »
Quote from: GeorgeC
Pulling a little vacuum at idle is totally different than being able to do so at 10500 rpm though...


The engine crankcase is basically "air tight" with this setup ... so once the PAIR evacuates the crankcase there is no constant flow for it to evacuate, unless of course the rings are blowing tons of combustion gasses by ... which a good engine shouldn't.

It's been proven to work by many, many members here. :yes:
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Offline Busa@11K

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 06:55:02 PM »
Quote from: Cookie
Quote from: Busa@11K
It's been proven to work by many, many members here. :yes:

Are you one some five years after the fact? Mark ever hook you up?


I haven't talked to Mark forever.  Nope, no PAIR sucker mod on my machine ... I'm contributing to the good of the environment.  :P  8)
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PMDC Motor Theory ... Back EMF is the Key.

Offline Busa@11K

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2005, 07:16:05 PM »
Quote from: Cookie
That's weird. I haven't either. He's probably wrapped up tight with the family scene. That was the pic I was getting last time out. :? Too bad, he's a good guy.


I'm sure he's out at the track still.  I think that's the last time I saw him actually, almost a year ago.  Ya know he's addicted to the track scene.  :wink:
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PMDC Motor Theory ... Back EMF is the Key.

Offline foresteronw

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2005, 07:28:50 PM »
oilheadron, kind of off topic but another one you might want to try when you get your dyno up is the stock vs K&N vs BMC vs BMC race filter to see how that pans out.
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Offline oilheadron

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2005, 08:17:05 PM »
Hadn't even considered that one, but it's on the agenda now!  :yes:
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Offline gsteve

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2005, 09:44:51 AM »
Any more opinions or info on this?
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Its not really done till its over done !
Yosh cams , akro pipes , pc3 ,more if required!

Offline FASBUS

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2005, 10:12:34 AM »
On my modified 02 1k ,headwork,web cams,yosh head gasket after tuning(it does give false readings to the 02sniffer)after my best pull w/custom map w/tuning link I connected the vacuum to the  crankcase & instantly picked up four h.p.....so it stayed.
 But I have a different opinion on very high h.p. all motor bike as maybe holds to much heat in crankcase that cannot be pumped out by pistons pullin & pushin clean/cooler air into the crankcase..However I will hook it up to make extra few hp on dyno w large busa motor I always recommend to disconnect it on a busa motor over 190-200hp though...my 2cnts
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Offline oilheadron

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2005, 10:16:41 AM »
Quote
instantly picked up four h.p.....so it stayed.


Cool. Did you happen to take it back off to verify that the hp went back down?
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Offline rico

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2005, 10:26:48 AM »
..pair mod sux..
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Offline FASBUS

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2005, 12:52:01 PM »
Quote from: rico
..pair mod sux..

 :lol: vacuum..
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Offline FASBUS

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2005, 01:08:27 PM »
@11k... why don't you wander over to the LSR forum and tell hank, noonan, guthrie et al... that they have no talent and can just bang gears...

those guys are some very talented individuals & would not knock their experiences on there bikes.I just had a different outcome on my bike.
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Offline E-RACER

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More on the Pair mod
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2005, 09:57:41 PM »
Well,I will tell you this..I've done it to Every bike I've owned and a few buddies bikes,and they have all been VERY strong running bikes!!

I'm guessing 1-2 Hp gain..but Hey every little bit helps!!

Ps.I get the hose from NAPA it has a green core and will not collapse,one hose straight to the PCV no fittings ect,And that hose in the pic lookes kinked to Me,And probably will under pressure also..get the good hose and some real clamps!! :D
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Offline mike spisak

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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2005, 06:40:14 AM »
Quote from: Jynx
Remove the pair with an aftermarket exhaust.  Peer-ee-odd.   :lol:


keep pair in ,perform sucker mod
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01 busa 198 mph stock motor all mods
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