multi vs two stage

[bigchief]

It would appear that the multistage lock-up system is better than the two stage, but for racing class purposes when you can't use a multistage, is there any real benefit to using a two stage lock up clutch over say a stock system with Brock mods and springs for drag racing. Anyone have any experience on using the lock two stage lock up and what is the secret to launching with one??

[zrxdean]

There's no 'secret' - a 2 stage will let you run light static spring pressure, and slip off the line, then locks up downtrack when the wheel speed gets up. Tuning a lockup is specific to the bike and rider, no 2 setups are exactly the same.

Dean

[tnfastbusa]

a two stage is good for the street with big power

[bigchief]

So if it is good for the street, does that mean I am at a disadvantage if I use the  two stageat the drag strip. Would the stock setup and brock components be the ideal way to go then??

[tnfastbusa]

a 2stage will work good if you set it up wright and it is easy to set no it is not a disadvantage for the strip

[GoldenChild]

If you don't have at least 200 hp just stick with the Brock Stuff and spend the money on gate fees to learn how to launch.

[plat03busa]

    Now that's good advice

[bigchief]

no, I plan on having at least 450 hp.. It's just he Super street class does not allow multi stage clutch, but you can use a two stage. I have never riden with either. I have always used BDE/w springs and was able to 1.49 60fts @64in. What improvement will the two stage make?

[tnfastbusa]

you want get the broc setup to hold that much power better get 2 stage then

[zrxdean]

Great, I hope next year lots of folks race in SS. You'll definitely need a lockup for that kind of power.

What kind of bike? Whose turbo system?

Dean

[GeorgeC]

I don't understand why a two stage would be allowed, but not a multistage...  The only difference are that the multistage has a number of stall springs installed, which can be set up with different springs/weights to make the lockup more gradual.  You can remove all of the stall springs, and it becomes a regular two stage lockup.

The first "stage" is the static clutch spring pressure, which is what lets the clutch slip when you throw the lever out.  That is adjustable by using lighter or heavier clutch springs, or installing/removing spacers on the lockup to change the spring pressure of the springs...

The second stage is just the centrifugal arms being thrown outward (with greater force in relation to rear wheel speed), hence pushing on the outer part of the clutch assembly and applying more pressure on the clutch plates to prevent slippage.

[zrxdean]

Talk to Scooter I guess. Some folks say you can tune a multistage to the point where you can throw the clutch at the hit. I don't know, I've never used one.

Dean

[BOOSTED]

Talk to Scooter I guess. Some folks say you can tune a multistage to the point where you can throw the clutch at the hit. I don't know, I've never used one.

Dean

Yup just throw the clutch with a multi well set

[GeorgeC]

Isn't that what you do with a dual stage???

I just throw my lever, and haven't even got mine dialed in yet... 

[BLUR AKA SIDEWAYS AKA KING OF SOUTH FLORIDA]

This is my experience. I had a dual stage for about six months before frustration set in and I sold it. I tried many different set-ups and had experienced people work on it and it was never right. It either locked up too soon and I would wheelie or slipped so bad I burned up clutches. I talked to MTC at Gainsville recently and they said that a dual stage only really works well in dragracing for a bike with bars. I am going to buy a multi-stage. I have confidence it will work after talking to many people. After messing with the dual stage for awhile I see where having the spring pressure on the arms could make all the difference in the world.

Bigchief- My suggestion to you is to use the dual stage to hold your clutch from slipping with such high horsepower not to improve your launch and sixty foot times. I dont think the Brock mods will keep your clutch from slipping down the track with the temperatures you are going to reach. What I mean by this is to set-up the dual stage so that your clutch acts as it does now when you launch but doesnt lock up totally until your down the track some.
Check what your spring pressure is now and duplicate that with other springs with your lock-up installed.Start off with no weight on the arms and build it up a little at a time until it locks up too soon and then back it off.

my 2 cents

[zrxdean]

Good advice Blur.

George, can you leave WOT throwing the clutch? What are your 60s and 330s?  I either have to slip the clutch or modulate throttle to keep the front down.  The 2-stage lets me keep the static pressure low, so clutch control is a lot easier, and keeps things tight downtrack when the boost really comes in.

Dean

[GoldenChild]

Plat03,Now that's good advice  ,now where does it say anywhere above my post how much hp he has?He just stated a question and I gave the best answer assuming that (IF)he had less than 200 hp what to do,look in the mirror beofre you call someone STUPID.

[GeorgeC]

Good advice Blur.

George, can you leave WOT throwing the clutch? What are your 60s and 330s?  I either have to slip the clutch or modulate throttle to keep the front down.  The 2-stage lets me keep the static pressure low, so clutch control is a lot easier, and keeps things tight downtrack when the boost really comes in.

Dean

Dean, that's the sad thing...  I leave by just throwing the lever away and going WOT instantly, but my 60' and 330' times still suck.     Between trying to discipline myself to actually go WOT instantly (harder than it sounds for me for some reason), and tracks that just aren't prepped well, my 60' times haven't been any better than 1.57 or so with the lockup.  330' times are usually in the low 4.0 range.

It's taken a bit of time for me to adjust myself to riding differently, and trying to find the right combination of static spring pressure and lockup.  I think I might just about have the setup nailed now, but my last pass (with me riding the bike right) was on a crappy track where everyone (including me) was spinning.  It's been a real struggle trying to get this thing figured out, but I think I may be very close now.

[bigchief]

Thanks for all the input guys. I see this is going to be quite the headache with this two stage.  I tried talking to Kizer, the president of AMA/Prostar, and he is trying to keep the class as stock as possible, so they are trying to limit additives on the bikes. They don't want it to get out of hand and become a rich man's class like pro street.  I'll just do the best I can with it.  Yeah Dean I seen you out there running. (great job)  I also seen you at the no lip race.  I often go to Gainesville to watch everyone test and tune, I just try and keep to myself, drag racer don't seem to be to friendly when you are trying to talk to them when they are racing as if you are stealing there secrets.(smile)  Especially when you don't have a bike, it seems drag racers look down on you at a track, but I have been riding bikes for years and have raced at Gainesville several times before.  I am sure when I make it back out to the track this spring you may recognize me.  In fact Dean I may need your help to get set-up for the class...

[Chocolate City]

Good luck to you on the 2-stage setup. We have been playing with one for a while and I hate it . It's been 1.47 60ft. @62", but that was with no weight on the arms. I am use to Brock's setup with the heavy clutch pull so this is all new to me with the light clutch pull.

[EXTREMEFUN1300]

2 stage, multi-stage or whatever....the clutch should not still be slipping as you shift into 2nd gear.  These types of clutches are only part of the puzzle to controlling energy, getting the power to the ground and getting down the track. 

[zrxdean]

Sounds good bigchief, come find me at the track, I'll tell anybody anything they want to know. May not be too useful, but I'll tell ya

You realize there's a 54mm inlet limit for SS? Might be a little harder to make 450+ with no water injection and no spray.

Dean

[bigchief]

Thanks for the help zrxdean, yeah I know about the 54mm turbo inlet, and yeah it  won't have over 450, you are right,  I am hoping for at least 400 plus though and motorhead said he can make this happen. So we will see. I just thught I'd try building a bike for a class, as I don't see the sense in having a 500 plus hp bike, that I have to bracket race with all the time and can't get the full effect on the street, and I know I can't afford to race with the pro-street big boys..

[GoldenChild]

BigChief,I just figured out who you were on here,it was good meeting you when I was there and I know what you mean about people looking down at you.I hope all goes well for you next season.

[bigchief]

yeah, I hope so.  It funny when I use to race, I was more than willing to help out anyone with tips on what to do if they asked, but after I lost my bike, and would spectat, people treated me like I was a bother. It's all good though,  It  just brings out the competitiveness in me, so trust me when I get back on the track, I have some ass to kick. (smile)

[GeorgeC]

bigchief, I used to spend a lot of time at Gainesville before I moved down here to Melbourne.  Do we know each other?

[bigchief]

I am not sure.  I now all the guys from the local track, like Dana, Michael, Anthony,  a couple of the ZX12 guys like Brain, Kevin, and Steve. I use to race a 2000 blue and Silver Hayabusa. If you use to go to Pecan or Gainesville, I am sure we have cross paths.

[GeorgeC]

I know some of the '12R guys you mentioned, but I haven't been on the bike scene for too long...  I used to be a car guy.

[gnd111]

BigChief - are you Michael Parks, Gary, or Busa Mike?

[bigchief]

No, but I started out racing when all those guys did.. I think I meet you in Gainesville's with Orlando and his brother a while back

[gnd111]

Nope not me.  But Orlando and Ray are good people. 

[bigchief]

well I guess we have not cross paths, just know some of the same people.

[GoldenChild]

These are some wild cats and cool to boot-Michael Parks, Gary & Busa Mike-I meet all of them on my trip made me feel like one of the boys.