Author Topic: ape head (Read 11757 times) Tweet

Joker_101 · « **on:** April 20, 2006, 02:46:20 PM »

Is anyone using a 1397 and ape head?
What hp are you making.

rem300ultra · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2006, 07:51:36 PM »

This is just my .002 but I would go with a Carpenter head. I tried both APE and Carpenter heads on my 1397 and the Carpenter head made about 17 more Hp on the same dyno than the APE head.

ny05busa · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2006, 08:12:25 PM »

Carpenters head machine is just simply amazing. I can vouge for his 1397 hp as well. 223 and its a totally diffreant bike all around.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 20, 2006, 08:28:18 PM »

I guess no one uses the ape head.

mike46 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2006, 12:04:24 AM »

Quote from: rem300ultra on April 20, 2006, 07:51:36 PM

This is just my .002 but I would go with a Carpenter head. I tried both APE and Carpenter heads on my 1397 and the Carpenter head made about 17 more Hp on the same dyno than the APE head.

17 ? Same valve job and compression?

gnd111 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2006, 07:09:34 AM »

Quote from: rem300ultra on April 20, 2006, 07:51:36 PM

This is just my .002 but I would go with a Carpenter head. I tried both APE and Carpenter heads on my 1397 and the Carpenter head made about 17 more Hp on the same dyno than the APE head.

Same day, same temp, same humidity, same baramoter, same air pressure in tires, same fuel, same compression, same size valves??? Was every variable the same? If even off one tiny amount then you can negate 5-7 of that HP. I could see a 10 HP difference but 15-17 doesn't seem possible or believeable. 20rwhp more than a stock head yes but not 17 more than a hand ported VS cnc ported head... But i am not a tuner so i may be clueless...

DarkFalcon · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2006, 07:53:46 AM »

Quote from: rem300ultra on April 20, 2006, 07:51:36 PM

This is just my .002 but I would go with a Carpenter head. I tried both APE and Carpenter heads on my 1397 and the Carpenter head made about 17 more Hp on the same dyno than the APE head.

Everything the same except for different heads?

gazza414 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2006, 11:45:03 AM »

Most will struggle DF with that one.

DarkFalcon · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:26:15 PM »

I believe so my man.

TRNorBRN6001 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2006, 04:43:24 PM »

I've seen a fresh APE head that looked like it would be 17HP
lower than an other head

Joker_101 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2006, 05:33:50 PM »

Ok, this thread is going nowhere.

TRNorBRN6001 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2006, 06:36:45 PM »

Not the big guns, just people who are trying to do a quick build.

,
But APE might have stepped it up a notch by now. The last APE head I saw was almost a year ago.

DarkFalcon · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2006, 07:14:06 PM »

Quote from: TRNorBRN6001 on April 21, 2006, 04:43:24 PM

I've seen a fresh APE head that looked like it would be 17HP
lower than an other head

I would be willing to bet I have gone over and measured more Busa heads than most, and will say this: by visual inspection alone, it is close to imposssible for the untrained eye to draw meaningful observations as to the performance potential from visual inspection alone. Even flow numbers are only part of the story. And what makes matters worse, two competing approaches to port design can yield comparable perfromance results.........like V&H versus Rick Ward. Small versus Big.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2006, 02:28:07 AM »

Ape heads are made by Spaz, he ran 8.6 with his head.
Shouldn't that prove ape head is good?

gazza414 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2006, 03:24:29 AM »

Joker , what led you to that conclusion alone?

Joker_101 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2006, 04:35:04 AM »

Dont you need a good head to run 8.6 all motor?

Treysbusa · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2006, 06:23:32 AM »

I have never used a ape head but i was told that spaz does there heads and all i have heard about spaz is good talk.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2006, 03:46:22 PM »

Yeah, Spaz has a bad personality rep around here.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2006, 04:04:12 PM »

Quote from: Treysbusa on April 22, 2006, 06:23:32 AM

I have never used a ape head but i was told that spaz does there heads and all i have heard about spaz is good talk.

Whats heads have you used?

Treysbusa · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2006, 06:45:47 PM »

I have just built a motor with a head from a guy on the forum. I have a grudge race tommorrow with a zx 10 with the juice. I havent been on the track yet with the new motor. The guy has been talking alot of smack and i am going to shut that trap. I ran a 5.98 in the 1/8 on a stock motor. I will post tommorrow evening what i do.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2006, 07:00:24 PM »

good luck dude

Joker_101 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2006, 10:27:25 PM »

Quote from: Joker_101 on April 22, 2006, 04:35:04 AM

Dont you need a good head to run 8.6 all motor?

gazza had nothing to say about this

DaveO · « **Reply #22 on:** April 22, 2006, 10:42:52 PM »

Quote from: Joker_101 on April 22, 2006, 02:28:07 AM

Ape heads are made by Spaz, he ran 8.6 with his head.
Shouldn't that prove ape head is good?

Actually Eddie ran the 86....he's a pro jockey.....

Dave

Joker_101 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2006, 11:01:36 PM »

Hey DaveO, how much hp do you think
this will make for a busa. Thanks...or anyone

-brock exhaust,small box mod, good filter
-1397 from ape
-ported head from ape
-385 megacycle cams
on 91 octane

DarkFalcon · « **Reply #24 on:** April 23, 2006, 07:20:12 AM »

Quote from: DaveO on April 22, 2006, 10:42:52 PM

Quote from: Joker_101 on April 22, 2006, 02:28:07 AM

Ape heads are made by Spaz, he ran 8.6 with his head.
Shouldn't that prove ape head is good?

Actually Eddie ran the 86....he's a pro jockey.....

Dave

I thought the time was more impressive than the speed of 162 something..........but it is a strong bike. The head in that engine is a hand ported Spaz head with a valve job by S&K Racing. I have no interest in this beyond understanding and presenting the facts.

DaveO · « **Reply #25 on:** April 23, 2006, 09:50:45 AM »

I would give credit for the 8.62 pass to Eddies riding/weight....and the total setup of Spaz's bike. Not taking away from his cylinder head....just that the total package has much more affect on the ET.

Hp for the listed package above should be around 200+rwhp if everything is done correctly....

Dave

DarkFalcon · « **Reply #26 on:** April 23, 2006, 10:11:13 AM »

Those are good points Dave and, as I recall, the bike had Marvic wheels which further diminishes the power/speed component of the run. It's interesting how all of these little details begin to shed light on why certain things happen and start to challenge simple explanations.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 23, 2006, 03:40:54 PM »

Quote from: DaveO on April 23, 2006, 09:50:45 AM

I would give credit for the 8.62 pass to Eddies riding/weight....and the total setup of Spaz's bike. Not taking away from his cylinder head....just that the total package has much more affect on the ET.

Hp for the listed package above should be around 200+rwhp if everything is done correctly....

Dave

What can I do to get 210

bhartley · « **Reply #28 on:** April 24, 2006, 06:55:39 AM »

Quote from: DarkFalcon on April 23, 2006, 10:11:13 AM

Those are good points Dave and, as I recall, the bike had Marvic wheels which further diminishes the power/speed component of the run. It's interesting how all of these little details begin to shed light on why certain things happen and start to challenge simple explanations.

Stock front wheel and BST rear wheel .
Spaz has ran really quick on the bike and he is not a feather weight by any means .
You are correct the total package is great on that bike but it did make pretty big power on the dyno for the setup .
Weather you like him or not his setup makes good power for the money .
Lot's of heads ported by him are running good numbers .

Bill

TRNorBRN6001 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 24, 2006, 08:27:35 AM »

Yep, I agree visually I realy can't tell to much so that should mean
something. Valve work was bad, who knows about the port job
though as they look similar to me. I have seen a bare spaz head also,
definetly needed a little solvent tank action, but it seemed to work
well on a 1507.

Jay · « **Reply #30 on:** April 24, 2006, 03:01:05 PM »

Spaz says the heads we sell, with 1397 .360 cams, ( he likes little cams on 1397s) Brock or Ti Firce pipe, stock throttle bodies, small box mod,and custom map, have made as high as 227 on RACE GAS. (Virus).

He says it is a no brainer 210 h.p. on pump gas.

You have to remember he is one of the best tuners out there, so not everyone that bolts stuff together is goung to get the kind of power he does, but you should get close.

Jay

Joker_101 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 24, 2006, 05:26:17 PM »

Quote from: Jay on April 24, 2006, 03:01:05 PM

Spaz says the heads we sell, with 1397 .360 cams, ( he likes little cams on 1397s) Brock or Ti Firce pipe, stock throttle bodies, small box mod,and custom map, have made as high as 227 on RACE GAS. (Virus).

He says it is a no brainer 210 h.p. on pump gas.

You have to remember he is one of the best tuners out there, so not everyone that bolts stuff together is goung to get the kind of power he does, but you should get close.

Jay

Cool, I'll be buying my big bore and head from APE.

SPEED KING · « **Reply #32 on:** April 25, 2006, 12:56:39 AM »

Ask for the flow sheets that all builders are willing to supply when the port "your" head.

dakinebusa · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:01:43 AM »

Spaz doesn't need any stinkin' flow bench.
At least, I have never heard anything but talk when asked to post real data.
One thing I learned for sure in my engineering career...
"In God we trust, everyone else can bring data."

mike46 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2006, 07:43:30 AM »

After you port and measure the same type of head 2 or 3 times I don't see any benefit to flow testing unless you are trying something very different. Besides....how will you ever know if it was your head that was flowed??

TRNorBRN6001 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2006, 08:27:17 AM »

I think it's called integrity, something very few people know about
these days. They can always show you the flow from a different
head, but I do not think most reputable people will.

mike46 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2006, 11:23:25 AM »

Quote from: TRNorBRN6001 on April 25, 2006, 08:27:17 AM

I think it's called integrity, something very few people know about
these days. They can always show you the flow from a different
head, but I do not think most reputable people will.

So I guess that means there are few reputable people.

Joker_101 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2006, 12:34:51 PM »

I was talking to dark falcon, he said to ask if the valve job
comes with a warranty. Do other places warranty valve jobs?

Thomas Lindemann · « **Reply #38 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:22:14 PM »

227 on a 1397 with .360 cams? must be a magician!

Jay · « **Reply #39 on:** April 25, 2006, 11:36:32 PM »

Quote from: Thomas Lindemann on April 25, 2006, 01:22:14 PM

227 on a 1397 with .360 cams? must be a magician!

That's what I thought too. I had him repeat it. I do know he doesn't push the guides down so that would limit it to about .378 unless one used our short retainers.

Jay

bhartley · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2006, 06:41:45 AM »

358 exhaust and 381 intake . This is what he uses most of the time .

B.

WHEREDIDIGO · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2006, 09:39:01 PM »

SPAZS HEADS WORKS LIKE HIM OR NOT

SECOND IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY THEN KEEP IT MOVING
GOOD JOB SPAZ

black1216 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 13, 2006, 06:56:54 AM »

Quote from: mike46 on April 25, 2006, 07:43:30 AM

After you port and measure the same type of head 2 or 3 times I don't see any benefit to flow testing unless you are trying something very different. Besides....how will you ever know if it was your head that was flowed??

agree but only after many hours on a bench finding out what certain heads do an dont like.

mike46 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2006, 08:14:29 AM »

Quote from: black1216 on May 13, 2006, 06:56:54 AM

Quote from: mike46 on April 25, 2006, 07:43:30 AM
After you port and measure the same type of head 2 or 3 times I don't see any benefit to flow testing unless you are trying something very different. Besides....how will you ever know if it was your head that was flowed??

agree but only after many hours on a bench finding out what certain heads do an dont like.

That was my point. Nice website. I'm doing a Slingshot head for a 1200 Bandit now. It is for a guy in Finland. I changed the port entrance quite a bit pulling the long side over to get more volume and better access to the far valve.

black1216 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 13, 2006, 01:50:03 PM »

yeap 1/4 runner need that pretty bad when going with bigger valves .. just did a slingshot for a dwarf car motor could still see most of the casting seam left ports small om purpose still pulled 120+cfm @ .400 lift ..@ 10inches . i got a feeling its goona work on motor

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Author Topic: ape head (Read 11757 times) Tweet