Tire Selection and Pressure for Street or Track

[X E Ryder]

How about it?

What is your preference and why?

I currently run Pilot Powers 35r 32f cold, they stick well thus far but I do not have alot to compare to on the Busa.

Have only run the stockers before this as I have not had the Busa that long.

On previous bikes, used to run Metzelers - Loved em.

[X E Ryder]

Hey Sloppy Joe!

That is a damn good point! I run 35r 32f Air, and cold.

Do I not want them to get any higher for best stick and contact patch size?

We have a nitro filling station around the corner, will those pressures during riding still be high enough to be safe, or will they give me even more stick?

Thanks. I had not thought of nitrogen!!

[Quijinn]

The 5 over rule is what you should use. If you put 32 in the front tire and go out blasting hard and get the tire warmed up to its normal max temp then check it (watch out for hot rotors...I'm not kidden) you should have about 37 hot. If you have more then you need to raise your cold tire pressure, less you need to lower you cold tire pressure. Not enough air in the tire will cause it to heat up more, to much air will cause it to not heat enough. Same with the rear tire, the rear should usually have the same or more pressure then the front due to the extra friction of acceleration.

Remeber this is for harder rideing not your daily comute, for that you might want to run a few more psi for gas milage and wear. I would say 36 front/38 rear for daily rideing and 32/34 for hard rideing as a place to start.

[X E Ryder]

Thanks guys, got it, and it makes sense.

I do know if you get a tire too hot it gets greasy and can be really slick. 

I will get nitrogen soon! 

[Kirk]

Everybody's got a favorite "pet" track tire.

Personally, I prefer not to run Dunlop's U.K. made front line slicks, rains, intermediates, and racing DOT tires. They lack a circumferential belt, causing a couple of concerns that I choose not to deal with. They grow at speed. Pretty significantly. To the point of rubbing holes in front fenders and putting shiny spots on the crotch of the swingarm. From time to time you'll see (and smell) a Dunlop rider actually smoking as they approach a high-speed braking zone. I have read about more catastrophic high-speed Dunlop tire failures than all other brands combined. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that putting them on a really heavy, really powerful bike is going to put you at a higher risk than anyone else. They also don't transfer heat from one side of the tire to the other. So for example if your track is mostly right turns (like PIR) with only one left of any significance, you can get the right side of the tire hot in one lap, and then suddenly take up high-speed gardening on lap 2 in a left turn. They are also notoriously unstable. They are just not happy going in a straight line, and they just don't seem to ever really settle down. It's distracting. These comments do not extend to Dunlop's second-tier U.S. made DOT track day and street tires. Dunlop's contingency program typically pays the best.

I also prefer not to run Michelins. My reasons are personal and have nothing to do with the performance of the tires. I just prefer not to buy French products. There have been a number of reports of Michelins letting go suddenly without warning. The president of our racing association lost a very nice Blackbird using Pilot Powers on a track day, and I haven't seen him go down in the six years that I've known him.

I chose not to use Pirelli tires because the tire vendor at PIR has an ongoing intimate relationship with himself and his mother. But I like the tires, so I run Metzelers. They are the same company, and you can pretty much buy the exact same tire in either brand, with just minor cosmetic differences between tread patterns. 17" Pirelli/Metzeler sporting tires have a circumferential belt that transfers heat from one side of the tire to the other. I can mount a brand new set of tires, do one sighter lap, and I'm ready to rip on both sides of the tire- without warmers. They don't grow at major speed. If you can see daylight between the tire and a hard part in your pits, it's not gonna touch. They are extremely stable. To the point that some Pirelli/Metzeler riders remove their steering dampers. Watch an Isle of Man video and try to find any rider that doesn't use Pirelli/Metzeler tires. Pirelli/Metzeler's contingency program typically pays the worst, but tire contingency money is nothing compared to motorcycle manufacturer contingency money, so I say run whatever you think will put you on the box.

[Kirk]

For tire pressure information, go here:

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=75445.0

[Kirk]

In terms of tire size, you are limiting yourself in a big way if you run a 190/50 tire, or any other tire with an aspect ratio of 50 or less.

One of the easiest, cheapest, and most effective improvements in the Hayabusa's overall perfomance envelope is to simply dump the 190/50 in favor of a 180/55. The 180/55 weighs less, so it accelerates faster. It's slightly taller, for a higher top speed. It has less gyroscopic effect on the bike, so it takes less effort to get the bike to change lines (ie, flipping the bike from side to side for an S-turn). It's less expensive. But far and away the biggest single advantage of the 180/55 tire over the 190/50 is that it lays down WAY more rubber when banked over, offering way more traction on corner exits, allowing you a much better opportunity to exploit the Hayabusa's singular advantage over every other motorcycle on the track. Remember, a ZX10R can't draft you if he can't get into your draft.

There are other tire sizes that offer many of the same benefits, but none of them are street tires. Pirelli/Metzeler makes 190/55 slicks and DOT race tires that feel nearly as quick as a 180/55, but lasts a lot longer under the abuse of a Hayabusa. Dunlop makes a 190/60 DOT race tire, but I think it only comes in the U.K. made version. Dunlop also offers a U.K. made Superstock slick of comedic proportions- a 195/70. It must be hell to change directions on that one, I'm sure it's a handful in a straight line, it's almost impossible to fit to some bikes, and even then you have to make some serious chassis modifications to correct the geometry, but I'll bet the side grip is like nothing this side of a 16.5" Superbike slick.

[Godzuki]

back when i was first racing we all used the dunlop 207's a great tire then but now no so. in the last years i raced i used the pirelli super corsa's, and the mezlers as they were also alowed in the spec tire class i ran. i ran them on the track and when i used up to much of the side wall i put them on my street bike and ran the centers out of them.

i know there are many people who say they would never use a dot race tire on the street well i do heres why

1. i dont ride on the street like i do on the track, infact im not even to half the speed i run on the track.
2. i already paid for these tires
3. they have plenty of grip left for the short life span they will have on the street, and ill never psuh them out to the outer edge on the street if i am then im riding way to fast for the street.
4. they still make a great drag tire.
5. i like how my bike handles with them on it.

[Kirk]

I ran my own track take-offs on the street, and for similar reasons.

1) It was a virtually infinite source of free street-legal rubber.

2) I ride like a Nancy on the street anyway- just ask Maui.

I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying that I used to do it too.

For anyone else reading this though, I must say that it's stupid to pay for race take-offs to put on your bike, no matter what you intend to do with it. Somebody else took them off of their bike, and it wasn't so that you would be able to purchase great tires for cheap. They took them off because they realized that a new set of tires was going to be way cheaper than a having their collar bone plated and screwed back together (not to mention a front brake lever, right clip-on, gas tank, wind screen, rear sub frame, exhaust mid-pipe, fairing stay, half a roll of duct tape for the bodywork, and a new set of tires). You should be smart enough to come to the same conclusion on your own bike. The only reason some penny-pinching racers run their own take-offs on the street is because there's a small mountain of them sitting in the garage, and the tire vendor mounts and balances them for free.

[Quijinn]

Yah I ran a rear take off for about 1k miles, hated it on the street. Was great at the drag strip but honestly I never trusted them on the road. Left hooters on night and rolled into it on a cold rear and it just went up in smoke, the Avon I have now sticks mucho better cold and even hot on the street. On the track I am sure track compound is better, but you dont reach 200 degrees on the street no matter how hard you think you ride.

[Godzuki]

yep the street and the track are 2 differnt worlds, i do not feel safe on the street running any where near the way i rode on the track, so my race take offs work fine, as i do not push them. that and you would have to be an idiot to ride even close to that on the street. now on back roads and twistys i run a spirited pace still, but that pace isnt close to race pace, or even track day pace. atleast around here in MI there arent alot of roads that get twisty, and even then they dont compair to the track, so to get leaned way over in them you have to be hauling some major azz which is stupid, on good tires or race take offs it doesnt matter, so i cut it back to sane speed on the street, and i let the track days keep my speed addiction in check, that and the drag strip. for the way i ride on the street yea the work great.

hehe the huge mountain of tires in the garage haha yea i know that one, i have 2 one is dirt bike, and one is street. hell i still have a set of rains sitting there i need to use up.

i also have had the spin up on cold tires thing happend aswell, you just have treat race take offs like your in the rain.

[sv dave]

Metzeler M3s

Street 30 Front 34 Rear
Track 28 Front 30 Rear

[Kirk]

I would never run rains on the street. I watched an endurance team try to stretch out a set of rains on a drying track. Dunlop makes a spectacularly good rain, and where everybody else's rains were chunking out and flying apart, causing them to have to pit for slicks or DNF or crash out, the lead bike on Dunlop rains was able to seek out puddles and wet spots to try to cool their tires off, and brought it home with the tire in one piece. It was shagged for sure, but it was all in one piece. The last couple of laps, they were exiting almost every corner sideways, almost full lock. The front looked great. Maybe that's why some supermotards use Dunlop's new rain on the front.

[Godzuki]

ohhh yea hehehe yep ive seen that at the track guys almost fighting for the puddle hehe so they can cool thier tires off. i dont know how many times i saw that when i was racing. they were racing from one puddle to the next.

[GLIDEMAN]

 b

In terms of tire size, you are limiting yourself in a big way if you run a 190/50 tire, or any other tire with an aspect ratio of 50 or less.

One of the easiest, cheapest, and most effective improvements in the Hayabusa's overall perfomance envelope is to simply dump the 190/50 in favor of a 180/55. The 180/55 weighs less, so it accelerates faster. It's slightly taller, for a higher top speed. It has less gyroscopic effect on the bike, so it takes less effort to get the bike to change lines (ie, flipping the bike from side to side for an S-turn). It's less expensive. But far and away the biggest single advantage of the 180/55 tire over the 190/50 is that it lays down WAY more rubber when banked over, offering way more traction on corner exits, allowing you a much better opportunity to exploit the Hayabusa's singular advantage over every other motorcycle on the track. Remember, a ZX10R can't draft you if he can't get into your draft.
     What is other readers ideas about changing to this rear tire size for the street? Disadvantages??

There are other tire sizes that offer many of the same benefits, but none of them are street tires. Pirelli/Metzeler makes 190/55 slicks and DOT race tires that feel nearly as quick as a 180/55, but lasts a lot longer under the abuse of a Hayabusa. Dunlop makes a 190/60 DOT race tire, but I think it only comes in the U.K. made version. Dunlop also offers a U.K. made Superstock slick of comedic proportions- a 195/70. It must be hell to change directions on that one, I'm sure it's a handful in a straight line, it's almost impossible to fit to some bikes, and even then you have to make some serious chassis modifications to correct the geometry, but I'll bet the side grip is like nothing this side of a 16.5" Superbike slick.

[GLIDEMAN]

It was to hard to tell what I asked inside the quote. Do you agree with changing to a 180/55 rear tire for street use? Why? Thanks.

[Kirk]

Yes. 180/55 for the street. Works good for track days too.

[mach1mike]

Sportec M3's:      F/R
Twisties: 32/34
Daily riding: 34/36
Touring at speed with load: 36/38
Top speed (Rare):40/40

[Twisted]

my preference on the street is to run them so that when they are cold they are a little under pressured and make the bike steer heavy, but when they warm up it steers perfect, its most likely quite a bit lower than most 23-24 rear and 25-26 front cold, I don't have to worry about overheating on the streets around here so I can get away with it, I like it like that because I feel the softer the tire the better it grips, plus I won't make the mistake of over riding a cold set because it makes the bike steer real heavy until they are up to temp...

I wont go on a race track, too scary and dangerous 

[CADDYWOMPUS]

my preference on the street is to run them so that when they are cold they are a little under pressured and make the bike steer heavy, but when they warm up it steers perfect, its most likely quite a bit lower than most 23-24 rear and 25-26 front cold, I don't have to worry about overheating on the streets around here so I can get away with it, I like it like that because I feel the softer the tire the better it grips, plus I won't make the mistake of over riding a cold set because it makes the bike steer real heavy until they are up to temp...

I wont go on a race track, too scary and dangerous 

You might as well just  be running a cruiser tire .   Your sticky  race tires are not going to have any profile at all unless you put some air in em .

[LE05BUSA]

Bridgestone BT-014's

42psi front/42psi rear

Any less for me is dangerous...

[Godzuki]

i tried a set of these bt014' last year and i came away very pleased with them. infact i am perplexed by the many people who say they suck, and they are as hard as wood. i thought they stuck great i even had them on my TLR for a track day. when i can afford to get them i get pirellie super corsa's, but thats only when i can afford to get them.

[CADDYWOMPUS]

i tried a set of these bt014' last year and i came away very pleased with them. infact i am perplexed by the many people who say they suck, and they are as hard as wood. i thought they stuck great i even had them on my TLR for a track day. when i can afford to get them i get pirellie super corsa's, but thats only when i can afford to get them.

alot of the the people passing judgement on tires have never been near a track or even leaned their bike over  .
the 014s are great tires imo.

[Godzuki]

yep i ran into some screaming cheap deals on ebay for 2 sets front and rear of them a month ago, hehehe i won 3 fronts all for .99 cents but i ended up paying 60 bucks for shipping hehe, well he screwed up and sent me 2 bt014's and 1 bt011(sport touring) it turned out that he accidentaly shipped my other front off to the guy who was supposed to get the bt011, any way to make it right he asked me if i would be interested in a bt014 rear to make it up to me. i said sure let me see a pic or 2 of them he said i have 2 of them take your pic, so i choose one, and he contacted me later and said he sent both of them, i said man you didnt have to do that. i said how would you like me to return this other front (the bt011) because its not a tire i could realy use, he said just keep it. so he got excellent feed back from me thats for damn sure, i got 5 tires for ehh 63 bucks.

anybody want a bt011 hehe ill sell it cheap hehe

[FJman]

10%


not a flat psi.


Not a profile thing.


10%.  Period.


It's worked for me.  With tubes in my chen shin cheapshit tires.  With my BT56's.  With a BT010.  With Avons.  With Dunlop K591's.  With ....anything.  It just works.   


Some tires need more pressure for support, some need more flex to actually bed in.  At 10% they all have worked so far.


This is true for street tires.  Not roadrace, trackday, dragstrip.  But for those instances, you should find someone with a similar combo and try their idea.

(If you ride like me on the street, 30psi on the rear, full links and strapped in front should work).

[mercenary]

Yes. 180/55 for the street. Works good for track days too.

What about high speed touring?

[CADDYWOMPUS]

Yes. 180/55 for the street. Works good for track days too.

What about high speed touring?

works great ,ive tested.

[mercenary]

Yes. 180/55 for the street. Works good for track days too.

What about high speed touring?

works great ,ive tested.

Hmmm is 190/55 even better for stability?

[LE05BUSA]

190/55 is better for a 6" rim...180/55 is best suited for a 5.5" rim

[mercenary]

190/55 is better for a 6" rim...180/55 is best suited for a 5.5" rim

ok thanks for your info