The whole point of the "ROAD COURSE" section

[Kirk]

It's addressing a paradigm issue.

I get so sick and tired of hearing people who know nothing talk about the Hayabusa being good for drag racing, top speed, and bling disorder, when it's actually a wonderfully well-balanced, friendly, amazingly competent motorcycle. I don't think it's healthy for us as members here to further that myth. But we do. Out of nearly 10,000 members here, a miniscule fraction have been able summon up the guts to do even one track day. There are only about three of us that have actually raced a Hayabusa.

I'm not saying that the Hayabusa should be anyone's first choice as a race bike, I'm just saying that if you own one, for crying out loud why not actually use it? It's more fun than giving two toys to three kids. I think the high water mark of my Hayabusa experience was catching the previous year's 125 champion approaching an S-turn, coming around the outside on the first turn, then showing them a wheel and taking the inside line on the second turn. Making that pass stick (on a Hayabusa), made me giggle like a little girl inside my helmet. And there can be no denying the sheer pleasure of exploiting the Hayabusa's singular advantage, expecially with people who have never experienced it before. When the grid board goes sideways, it's a foregone conclusion that the Hayabusa will get to turn one first. On corner exits, racers who have worked to jocky for position to draft you down the front straight fall out of your draft as you paint a thick black darkie off into the distance. Some racers gear their bikes to leave "a little something" extra for completing a draft pass, but even open-class bikes are into the limiter in 6th gear a good 10-15 mph short of a stock-motored Hayabusa on pump gas. Being taken on the brakes by a Hayabusa has to be a humiliating experience. And then of course there's the fact that the bike scares the crap out of everyone- even the corner workers. When push comes to shove, almost anyone who has to be at work on Monday will let the Hayabusa have the line. Nobody in their right mind wants to get tangled up with a 550 pound lawn dart.

[bobby5150]

you wrote - I'm just saying that if you own one, for crying out loud why not actually use it?

What makes you say that someone with 40k miles touring the country or just dragracing isnt using it. Racing on a track and risking my bike is not my idea of enjoyment. I like going high speed, long rides, enjoy riding with friends and doing shows. To me i feel as though i am using my bike for what i want to and trying to impress you is not my goal. Personally i could care less if you think i am using my bike.

[Kirk]

you wrote - I'm just saying that if you own one, for crying out loud why not actually use it?

What makes you say that someone with 40k miles touring the country or just dragracing isnt using it.

I put 30,000 miles on my Hayabusa touring the country, a lot of it two up. I've also drag raced my Hayabusa. I'm here to tell you, if you're not using the whole tire, you're not using the whole bike.

Racing on a track and risking my bike is not my idea of enjoyment.

Riding on the street and risking my life is not my idea of enjoyment. Doing track days and racing involves a lot less risk than riding down to Starbucks at 35 mph. Just ask Ben Whateverhisnameis. I've never been down on the track.

I like going high speed...

You can go as fast as you want, until you're too tired to ride any longer on a track day. No police, no cars, no cliffs, no Armaco, no oil slicks, no gravel, no pot-holes, no oncoming traffic, no lanes, no speed limits, no ditches, no anti-freeze, no diesel spills, no stop signs, no driveways, no intersections...

...long rides...

See above. Besides, most track day riders also ride on the street.

...enjoy riding with friends...

You haven't truly ridden with friends until you've ridden with them on a road course.

...and doing shows...trying to impress you is not my goal.

Make up your mind. Sounds like you're trying to impress somebody. A motorcycle is a tool. It's not who you are.

In the end, you may just not be cut out for this section of the board.

[Quijinn]

I think Kirk is saying that to the ppl that are here in this section. It is your bike and I will never fault anyone for doing with it what they love. Well cept maybe that guy that covered his Busa in fur  but other then that I would never. This is the Road raceing section, no need to feel deffencive when comeing here if you read something you dont agree with. If it where the Drag section I would understand, I am just trying to promote a good spot for us to enjoy the rare site of a Hayabausa with the riders knee down.

[EtrnlSoldier]

It's more fun than giving two toys to three kids.

That's the funniest thing I've read today.  That got a big outloud laugh.

Thanks for all the info and outlooks Kirk.  Please, please continue. 

[Kirk]

Thanks. I'm on it. 

[X E Ryder]

If I was to summarize Kirk's posting, I think he was trying to tell us:

The Hayabusa does everything well, it would be a shame to waste any of it! 

[Kirk]

Yup. Thanks. 

[Quijinn]

uhhhhh  are you serious or pulling our collective chains? I mean come on, I still have a 1/4 inc on my tires cause my forks are not up to snuff and you want to do it with bars on...    no not going to happen, least not saftly.

[02SE]

Uhh no, he's not serious. 

[Quijinn]

You know it was late and I posted after reading the post but not who posted it hahah. Gar is a funny fucker aint he 

[cstraubs1]

So how bad will the zx14 beat the Hayabusa on a road course?

[02SE]

So how bad will the zx14 beat the Hayabusa on a road course?

There is a thread on here somewhere in "Gen Discussion", that has a link to a ZX-14 board, that has a thread about an article from Japanese magazine "Young Machine".

In the article, the 'Busa was quicker, in almost all of their acceleration tests, and it was faster around a road course. Although the times were close.
 

[EtrnlSoldier]

So how bad will the zx14 beat the Hayabusa on a road course?

I would say that would weigh heavily on the rider.  Like 99.5% rider and .5% bike.  Are you feeling me?
There's guys on vintage Nortons and 125 2 strokes that do better times than I do around Willow Springs, and Willow Springs is a horsepower track, and I'm not the slowest guy out there (close though )
Nicky Hayden would run away from most of us with a Gold Wing on a supermoto track.
The bike means almost nothing when the pavement starts to twist.
Really.



Gar

This is exactly right.  I hear all the time about how badass the literbikes and 600's are on the track and how the Busa ain't about nothing.  Alot of the silliness gets shutdown and put away on track day.  Plain and simple.  99 percent of the sportbike riders on the road today can't ride for shit, regardless of their bike's capabilities.  But they talk smack like they got something going on.  At least they do on the internet.  Pathetic.  Not alot of smacktalk going on at the track.  Your bike and your ability do the talking there, as it should be.  Even the slowest guy on the track doesn't get talked down to because, AT LEAST HE'S GOT THE BALLS TO BE THERE TRYING HIS LUCK.

Sorry for the rant.  I was just at a ZX-10 site and a few squids who most likely have 3 inch chicken strips are running their mouths about the bikes that their mommies bought for them. 

[02SE]

I should've added that it was the same rider on both bikes, for the test.

I also should have said what Gar did. That with individual riders on individual bikes, the rider makes the difference. 

[Godzuki]

yep rider is the most important part of the pic. i did roadracing for around 5-6 years, in the 600hundy class, but i could also take that 600 and put it in the unlimited class and still do well on technical track.

i myself do not have a busa(i have a pre busa 1992 gsxr 1100, and my TLR), but i have and now alot of people with them and i even got 2 guys from here to do a track day with me. i was on my 01 TLR and bikefrk, and steelmastiff both came to grattan with me on thier busa's, for a track school on sat and open track day on sunday, they both did excellent and rode very well both days

here is a link to some pic's from that day. start at the top of this page with steel mastiff on the black 05LE and bikefrk on his red 04LE. i had a blast the whole time there even though when i would come out onto the straights they would both smoke my doors off and it would take me 1 to 3 corners to catch and pass them again. the funnyest thing i saw the whole weekend was being behind bikefrk as we came onto the front straight and seeing to racers go by me through that corner and they tried to split him. they both came along side him at about the start finish, and it looked like somebody pulled back a giant 3 man sling shot and fired john out of it as he just railed away from them for the rest of it, they past him going into 1 yea but hehe they had to sit tight on that front straight hehehe

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/Godzuki/street%20stuff/?start=60

overal the busa's did way better than i exspected them to, especially with the class they got in the day before, man that sucked i could see the look of mistery in them as they were following a instructor on a cruiser bike around the course at 1/5th break neck speed hehe

anyway i also think tacking your bike out to a track and taking a track school then doing a few track days a year its the best thing you can do to improve your riding skill. it also helps if you can find somebody who is faster to help you out on the track.

[X E Ryder]

Godzuki, nice post and great looking track in those pics!

[Quijinn]

Well putting a MotoGp bike against a average street bike is not fair, Sure most of it is in the rider but come on you take a 400 lb bike with 200 hp and any lenght of straight is going to make the street bike cry. Not to mention the level of suspention, brakes and stability of a MotoGP bike. I would say the bike would make a difference, a good rider on a moto and a great rider on a street 1k. I would like to see that, I guess then the track would come into play, long straigher track vs shorter tigher track.

[cstraubs1]

I agree the rider makes all the difference. As in any type of racing. I would like to see back to back laps with the same rider.

[Godzuki]

thanks XE ryder it was a nice day out there even for how cold it was that day. i did have to hold back though as the cold track wasnt all that grippy that day hehe, then it started sprinkeling and ehhh na i dont feel like risking it.

yea grattan used to be a awsome track with a great suface, now its a great track, with a crap hole surface, lots of cracks and holes hehe, its alot like picking your way through a contsruction zone hehe. were you used to beable to run any line through the corners now you have to whatch your azz, and realy plan your pass.

[Twisted]

This doesn't apply to Twisted though
He's quite sure that he could trade bikes with Rossi and whip his ass.
I tend to think otherwise.
Rossi on a GSXR 1K and Twisted on Val's Yamaha. 
Rossi's still gonna run away.

These guys that think the bike matters much make me laugh.




Gar

your freekin hilarious gar, its all good...

first of all after five laps rosie will be doing the barney rubble to get the gixxer stopped, and I can guarantee you,  on my bike the power race compounds heat cycles have expired, its like riding in the rain...

rosie rides OK but remember he is not superman, you can only rise to the ability of your bikes setup, nothing in the world can overcome too much or too little air pressure in your tires, heat degradation will shred them and thats it your done...

every little variable is added into the setup, F-1 cars have 150,000 different potential setups, obviously they aren't all used but thats just how many adjusters are on those machines...

you remember a few races back they pointed out rosies new frame didn't have enough "flex" thats where it all starts, they went back to the old and he got a seat....

racing isn't really a matter of skill at all because as you all know "riding" a bike is an accumulation of conditioning and repetition, yup, repetition...

racing is basically the same thing without the conditioning your mind wont be able to focus on the important things? if you have to study where the markers are or gear selections and so on you wont be able to focus on whats REALLY important and thats getting your bike to do thevery best that it can for its given setup, you the rider receives the bikes output and in kind give the bikes controls input, your job is to maximize EVERYTHING! that means get the most out of your setup...

so in essence racing is really a battle of setups or a race of  varying setups, Nickey Haydon said it best on the podium at last weeks race,

"I couldn't catch colin, he was riding the wheels off that thing" but, I tried something a little different and it made ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD, I saw what he did when he did it, I thought it was a mistake but I noticed the improvement, he did it on the final 3 laps and won the race because of that little change, his bike wasn't set up to go fast where he was riding it, he changed lines and wallah! he won...

rosie on my bike wouldnt even be able to finish the race much less win it...

[Twisted]

Well putting a MotoGp bike against a average street bike is not fair, Sure most of it is in the rider but come on you take a 400 lb bike with 200 hp and any lenght of straight is going to make the street bike cry. Not to mention the level of suspention, brakes and stability of a MotoGP bike. I would say the bike would make a difference, a good rider on a moto and a great rider on a street 1k. I would like to see that, I guess then the track would come into play, long straigher track vs shorter tigher track.

exactly, to measure skill the equipment and layout has to be strange and new.... meaning they must be new bikes that neither has any seat time on, lineage as well, and neither can have any seat time or prior study of the course as well...

only way it will work...

on a closed course and if I was in tip top shape the margins would be nominal either way...

on the streets, you can put Rosie on whatever you like and I will show him the way... guaranteed... 

[Quijinn]

Dont know about Twisted but I am really freaken fast, I bet money no one here can keep up with me, I can kill 3 plates at a Buffet before you can get to the end of the line

[Godzuki]

i have a feeling that in this fantasy race they would both struggle with coming to grips with each others bikes, niether person is going to jump on the other guys bike and be realy realy fast.  yea they both will be quick but dont ecspect any lap records hehe.

like he said practic and lots of it the more saddle time the better.

[Twisted]

You're a helluva fisherman.  I'll give you that.
Seeings how this race will never actually happen, you're safe in your fantasy
Just how fast to you think you are anyway?


Gar

an example, dehydrated (some kind of flu) on a stock 05 gsxr 1k with too soft suspension and power race M/M, I was turning around 1.40s my first time ever at miller east when track was still green, not good, not bad... another day with the right setup suppose I would do OK, anyone of the motoGP bikes, forget about it.....

[Kirk]

What happened to my thread... 

[Quijinn]

Shhh this is interesting  hahahah

[COLDSTONE1300]

What happened to my thread... 

 

The Road course info is amazing and much appreciated. Will try whats been listed so far. Thanks again. 

[Kirk]

Thanks. Looks like we're back on course again...