Author Topic: Ported Hayabusa Head...The Truth!!! (Read 64899 times) Tweet

whtrthanu · « **Reply #50 on:** August 28, 2006, 09:20:14 PM »

general rule of thumb is a 13% loss through the drive train

whtrthanu · « **Reply #51 on:** August 28, 2006, 09:28:04 PM »

Dark,
I have done some more testing with some newer engines, and I agree with you on your figures to a point...
On the 05 gsxr 1000 the port volume was over 100cc's and the intake valve is 30mm
On the 04 zx10 the port volume was much lower at 87cc's and the valve size was 31mm

Both of these heads flowed very close but the zx10 was a bit better, I feel the gsxr head in cast form is a better head though.
The air speed on the 10 was much higher at .200-.250 lift
I think the power curve was more linear on the 1000 where the zx10 was a bit peakier.....

I am finishing up a zx 10 head and trying some new things on this one, I will let you know how I make out and what I did to help you out with your data........

enginetuna · « **Reply #52 on:** December 26, 2006, 12:58:58 PM »

I can't see why anyone would want to open the ports up on the busa head, but then i don't build drag engines just circuit ones.
My opinion is the stock inlet port is far too big. Those with flow benches and pitot tubes will know why. The critical thing to be looking at on all these engines is port velocity and velocity profile through the port. Even on my 1580cc motors i reshape the port and run slightly less than stock intake port cc, on a 1397 or 1300 i am for much less than stock cc. But then like i said, my customers need repeated punch from as low as 4500rpm.
On 1000cc and especially 600cc motors, the small ports with correct velocity make huge mid and especially peak power gains. Different horses for different courses though i guess!
Oh and yes, bored throttle bodies cost power on 1400cc motors. Last time i tried it 1.5bhp gain for last 1000rpm but 3-4 loss everywhere else.

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #53 on:** March 24, 2010, 08:56:12 AM »

Some interesting reading for sure so thought I'd bring it back to the top for anyone's interest. I'm in the process of doing a 1441 gen2 motor and Sharky is going to do my head. Last busa went 160 in 1/4 at 706 total wieght with 209hp on Ryan Schnitzs dyno= not happy. Cant wait to see what this one can do with a master working on the head, no offense Bob( Mason)

. He did my last head and the bike hauled. And that was with 12:1 wiescos. Bob will be helping with this project too. He's my goodluck charm

BusaSean · « **Reply #54 on:** March 24, 2010, 09:26:12 PM »

Wow... all this head talk is way over my...... head.

I just wish I could afford a sharkey head!

ACE23 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 24, 2010, 09:33:15 PM »

Who is sharkey? Seems like he does quality head porting according to this particular review. I've also heard rick ward does some serious good cylinder head work

fvance · « **Reply #56 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:12:37 PM »

Bob Carpenter does pretty good work too.

Fred

Cookie · « **Reply #57 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:34:13 PM »

Quote from: ACE23 on March 24, 2010, 09:33:15 PM

Who is sharkey? Seems like he does quality head porting according to this particular review. I've also heard rick ward does some serious good cylinder head work

Why not settle for the best - Ward. They are CNC heads. One point above the Sharkey.

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #58 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:23:29 AM »

Quote from: Cookie on March 24, 2010, 10:34:13 PM

Quote from: ACE23 on March 24, 2010, 09:33:15 PM
Who is sharkey? Seems like he does quality head porting according to this particular review. I've also heard rick ward does some serious good cylinder head work

Why not settle for the best - Ward. They are CNC heads. One point above the Sharkey.

And what does that 1 point cost Cookie? I know what I was quoted and its no where near a Carpenter head and I have no clue what a ward head would run.
I've already received pms on how to contact Sharkey and I will give that info after receiving permission from him when I talk to him. Cant wait to get this going

ACE23 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:36:18 AM »

Quote from: Pat Dietrich on March 25, 2010, 07:23:29 AM

Quote from: Cookie on March 24, 2010, 10:34:13 PM
Quote from: ACE23 on March 24, 2010, 09:33:15 PM
Who is sharkey? Seems like he does quality head porting according to this particular review. I've also heard rick ward does some serious good cylinder head work

Why not settle for the best - Ward. They are CNC heads. One point above the Sharkey.

And what does that 1 point cost Cookie? I know what I was quoted and its no where near a Carpenter head and I have no clue what a ward head would run.
I've already received pms on how to contact Sharkey and I will give that info after receiving permission from him when I talk to him. Cant wait to get this going

Sounds like you have a nice plan in the make. In the past I know the shop gave me a cost of $2500 for the Rick Ward head and cam package......Motorhead told me he uses Carpenter and he does good work and then lets not forget about the good things we have all heard about Rick Stetson

Cookie · « **Reply #60 on:** March 25, 2010, 01:20:20 PM »

Quote

what does that 1 point cost Cookie?

Ask Johnsmithbusa. Maybe he can tell you.

Quote from: johnsmithbusa on August 06, 2006, 12:44:57 PM

First off, let me say this, my dad would be furious and fire me if he knew i was posting this. This is what everybody would like to know about a ported Hayabusa head. We have spent a lot of time and money on the engine dyno to find out. We built a 1397 engine. I wont tell you what pistons were in it, but i will tell you that all motors were all 14.7-15:1 compression ratio when assembled. We left this engine on the dyno at all times and only changed the heads. We had 4 guys from the shop to purchase heads from people we felt were the most competitive. That way we knew we would get a "run of the mill" head, not one prepped special for us. We flowed every head from .100 to .450 lift that we purchased. Stock valves were used, and the springs and retainers were that of porters choice. We used a set of bored throttle bodies, our 385 lift cams (intake and exhaust) because some heads were only set up for this size camshaft. The cams were all set at 105 intake, 107 exhaust. We used the stock rods and crankshaft with counter balancer. We used 2003 ignition system, a sidewinder exhaust (can?t tell you which one). The dyno room was climate controlled (72-74 degrees Fahrenheit) and the motors were mapped accordingly, with VP-MXR01 fuel. Some people may think that we didnt dyno some heads that should have been tested, but we know that a lot of shops outsource the porting and claim they were the ones who put in the work. For instance, APE heads are ported by a guy named Spaz. APE does a valve job and assembles the head, but claim its an APE head. Lees Performance is another that does the same thing, using Vance & Hines to c&c port the head and sent back to Lees Performance for valve job and assembly. Paul Gass is another example. Carpenter does a lot of heads for shops, some tell the truth, some dont. One of the ones who tells the truth is Motorhead. He uses Carpenters heads most of the time.

Here is a list of the top ten (ported stock intake & exhaust, all hp were taken from an engine dyno, the following are rear wheel. Rear wheel hp rating was attained using a 13% reduction for drivetrain):
Ward-235
Sharkey-234
Carpenter-230
Vance & Hines Racing-229
Gann-229
Superbike Mike-221
Performance Porting(Jason)-220
C&W-220
Spaz-218
Wharthanu-216

We ran 5 heads with 1mm bigger intake and exhaust valves:
Ward-237
Sharkey-237
V&HR-235
Carpenter-235
Superbike Mike-224

Best Air Speed of top 5(in order):
V&HR
Sharkey
Ward
Gann
Carpenter

I'm sure that people have made more horsepower with different combinations, but we didn't touch the bottom end. We only changed the heads, used the same camshaft and set it at 105 intake, 107 exhaust. These were the results, you could probably change things a little and tweek out a little more horsepower. If you used one of the top 5, you would be within 5hp no matter which one you bought. We have decided, if Suzuki doesn't change the Hayabusa engine, by testing Ward and Sharkeys heads, we will redesign our porting and be number one again by next year.

Anonymous

knecum · « **Reply #61 on:** March 26, 2010, 10:04:12 PM »

Bottom line is Bob Carpenter has more heads out there then anyone and makes the most power..trust me!!!...The fastest all motor top speed bikes and quickest in the 1/4 mile use Bobs heads. Thats the whole truth and nothing but the truth.. i don't care what you tested.. NEXT SUBJECT !!

FlatlandBusa · « **Reply #62 on:** March 26, 2010, 11:46:25 PM »

The highest peak power number does not always equal the best head.

The fact that the same cams were degreed in at the same place for every head makes this test even more irrelevant.

Different port designs like different cam profiles and different center lines.

This so called test means nothing unless you can run your motor at the exact RPM of peak power all the time.

PetriK · « **Reply #63 on:** March 27, 2010, 04:45:31 AM »

Does bringing up all this discussion mean that no new development during past 3-4 years from any of the companies ? Surely many companies have now acquired pitot tubes and have measured the flow on the port surface making improvements to design ? New better entrants have entered the porting market ?

Who are the top names now in drag racing and LSR bikes ? (and what kind of contigency programs etc they are running to understand the sponsoring angle for top teams.)

Btw - measured driveline losses for stock bikes seems mostly to run around 9-10%, highly depending on rpm and wheel speed.

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #64 on:** March 27, 2010, 08:52:25 AM »

Just interesting reading thats all. Nothing more nothing less.

However, I have raced guys with Carpenter heads and same day same track beat them with a 500.00 garage port job. And all 3 had je pistons while I ran 12:1 wiescos so fact is Carpenter probably has the most heads out there but they aint always the fastest. Rider wieght was almost identical and all 3 other bikes ran sliders and a 6in stretch while I was on a 3 in stretch. 2 of these guys are from indy and Bob Mason can chime in if he wants and tell you these were properly set-up bikes and motors so thats no reason why they didnt run any better than mine. 1 I beat by 1.5 tenths and the other was whithin hundreths but still beat him and had faster mph.Less compression, less camshaft and no where near the heads they had. One dynoed 234hp and the other 227? I think on the latter,real close anyway. I dynoed 209/ Explain that 1 cause it confuses the crap out of me.

knecum · « **Reply #65 on:** March 27, 2010, 09:07:40 AM »

All im saying is the 3 fastest top speed bike in the world that have records have his heads, and i know for a fact the 2 quickest and fastest all motor busa regardless of wheelbase in the 1/4 has bobs head.. I know the times so don't ask.. If you wanna know the top speeds they are 245 on motor, 238 on motor and 235 on motor 3 different bikes... Not saying anything bad about anyone else, but Bobs are the fastest, not saying the most on dyno that don't matter.. Btw just did a 3 mil 1000 209hp

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #66 on:** March 27, 2010, 04:43:59 PM »

Quote from: knecum on March 27, 2010, 09:07:40 AM

All im saying is the 3 fastest top speed bike in the world that have records have his heads, and i know for a fact the 2 quickest and fastest all motor busa regardless of wheelbase in the 1/4 has bobs head.. I know the times so don't ask.. If you wanna know the top speeds they are 245 on motor, 238 on motor and 235 on motor 3 different bikes... Not saying anything bad about anyone else, but Bobs are the fastest, not saying the most on dyno that don't matter.. Btw just did a 3 mil 1000 209hp

Yeah so what are the times??

knecum · « **Reply #67 on:** March 27, 2010, 05:18:59 PM »

Quote from: Pat Dietrich on March 27, 2010, 04:43:59 PM

Quote from: knecum on March 27, 2010, 09:07:40 AM
All im saying is the 3 fastest top speed bike in the world that have records have his heads, and i know for a fact the 2 quickest and fastest all motor busa regardless of wheelbase in the 1/4 has bobs head.. I know the times so don't ask.. If you wanna know the top speeds they are 245 on motor, 238 on motor and 235 on motor 3 different bikes... Not saying anything bad about anyone else, but Bobs are the fastest, not saying the most on dyno that don't matter.. Btw just did a 3 mil 1000 209hp

Yeah so what are the times??

I gave you the top speed records , now the 1/4 times i can't say... I would be letting people know what the quickest and fastest grudge bike goes, now why would i do that!! trust me its the fastest and everybody knows it is...

clearblue · « **Reply #68 on:** March 27, 2010, 07:21:05 PM »

Bob just built the most Hp Rocket out there all motor 240 hp won the dyno shootout at daytona for all motor

clearblue · « **Reply #69 on:** March 27, 2010, 07:33:51 PM »

Bob built my motor at the end of the season 1397 13:1 CP pistons 425/425 cams full Muzzy I have not had it to the track yet, on the dyno by my house when I got it mapped 209hp 113fpt Now the guy I use his dyno is very conseritive , My Vmax with just stacks and full system and flatslides made 131hp on one dyno and that same day made 124hp on his

tyboogie · « **Reply #70 on:** March 28, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »

Quote from: Pat Dietrich on March 27, 2010, 08:52:25 AM

Just interesting reading thats all. Nothing more nothing less.

However, I have raced guys with Carpenter heads and same day same track beat them with a 500.00 garage port job. And all 3 had je pistons while I ran 12:1 wiescos so fact is Carpenter probably has the most heads out there but they aint always the fastest. Rider wieght was almost identical and all 3 other bikes ran sliders and a 6in stretch while I was on a 3 in stretch. 2 of these guys are from indy and Bob Mason can chime in if he wants and tell you these were properly set-up bikes and motors so thats no reason why they didnt run any better than mine. 1 I beat by 1.5 tenths and the other was whithin hundreths but still beat him and had faster mph.Less compression, less camshaft and no where near the heads they had. One dynoed 234hp and the other 227? I think on the latter,real close anyway. I dynoed 209/ Explain that 1 cause it confuses the crap out of me.

Sometimes it's not the bike it is the rider.

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #71 on:** March 28, 2010, 12:50:57 PM »

Yeah, I know this. Fact is, I think they are both better riders and more experienced for sure as they are veteran racers and race for real. Im a test and tune guy and like to go to 1or 2 track days a year. I'm a good rider but not excellent. 3in stretch i would get in the 1.45 60ft range. It wasnt the rider in this case, trust me on that!

ACE23 · « **Reply #72 on:** March 28, 2010, 10:10:33 PM »

Quote from: Pat Dietrich on March 27, 2010, 08:52:25 AM

Just interesting reading thats all. Nothing more nothing less.

However, I have raced guys with Carpenter heads and same day same track beat them with a 500.00 garage port job. And all 3 had je pistons while I ran 12:1 wiescos so fact is Carpenter probably has the most heads out there but they aint always the fastest. Rider wieght was almost identical and all 3 other bikes ran sliders and a 6in stretch while I was on a 3 in stretch. 2 of these guys are from indy and Bob Mason can chime in if he wants and tell you these were properly set-up bikes and motors so thats no reason why they didnt run any better than mine. 1 I beat by 1.5 tenths and the other was whithin hundreths but still beat him and had faster mph.Less compression, less camshaft and no where near the heads they had. One dynoed 234hp and the other 227? I think on the latter,real close anyway. I dynoed 209/ Explain that 1 cause it confuses the crap out of me.

I would say the only way to solve that is for you to ride one of those bikes and see how they go.

Competition CNC · « **Reply #73 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:04:39 AM »

Quote from: knecum on March 27, 2010, 09:07:40 AM

All im saying is the 3 fastest top speed bike in the world that have records have his heads, and i know for a fact the 2 quickest and fastest all motor busa regardless of wheelbase in the 1/4 has bobs head.. I know the times so don't ask.. If you wanna know the top speeds they are 245 on motor, 238 on motor and 235 on motor 3 different bikes... Not saying anything bad about anyone else, but Bobs are the fastest, not saying the most on dyno that don't matter.. Btw just did a 3 mil 1000 209hp

I'd put one of my CNC heads up against anyone's head. On the dyno, drag strip, or LSR. Same engine, only a head swap.

Bring it on.

Pat Dietrich · « **Reply #74 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:24:34 AM »

Quote from: Y2KZX12R on May 20, 2010, 07:04:39 AM

Quote from: knecum on March 27, 2010, 09:07:40 AM
All im saying is the 3 fastest top speed bike in the world that have records have his heads, and i know for a fact the 2 quickest and fastest all motor busa regardless of wheelbase in the 1/4 has bobs head.. I know the times so don't ask.. If you wanna know the top speeds they are 245 on motor, 238 on motor and 235 on motor 3 different bikes... Not saying anything bad about anyone else, but Bobs are the fastest, not saying the most on dyno that don't matter.. Btw just did a 3 mil 1000 209hp

I'd put one of my CNC heads up against anyone's head. On the dyno, drag strip, or LSR. Same engine, only a head swap.

Bring it on.

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Author Topic: Ported Hayabusa Head...The Truth!!! (Read 64899 times) Tweet