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GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: brendasue555 on March 10, 2019, 03:18:29 PM
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Ok I am ready to talk about my crash at Loring if anyone has questions.
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Brenda Sue, it's good of you to talk about your wreck with the LSR community, thanks. Let's hear your thoughts on what happened. best, Dean
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Great pic.
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Did you have any inklings the crash was coming? I hear that for some who crash there is zero warning and for some there are vibrations and such pre crash.
BTW- you are a bad ass and a land speed hero in my eyes!!!
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Dean, I love that picture. I remember ever moment of that run and I think it is because I never lost consciousness. I will sit down and go through the whole run when I get a minute, been very busy and very tired. When I first came out of the coma I knew that I had gone off the pavement but could not figure out why or how. I wasn’t able to speak yet so I just layer there in the hospital and tried to figure it out. I decided that my helmet must have bobbled around or something. After I had been home about a month the memory of it came back like a lightning bolt. I will tell all as soon as I get a minute.
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I look forward to you recounting your experience, and getting a first hand insight into what actually happened :D
The one great positive to date has been your recovery and tanasity to get back on the horse :bike: 8)
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takes a strong person to get back at this and be able to talk about it.
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Ok so here is what happened..... I was doing test passes on the new bike and since there was no wind we put the fairings on the bike and I was going to do a pass. I am not sure of this but I think that the fairings might have been the same as Bill’s. Anyway second gear was messed up but since I was just testing and getting a feel for the bike it was decided to just short shift first gear and then shift in and out of second and then short shift third and forth gear. After that I was supposed to let the auto shift do the shifting for fifth and sixth gear. It was set to shift at 10k. As far as I know and I remember it pretty good, that is exactly what I did. I had no idea how fast that would put me but I didn’t think it would be over 200 but to be honest I was concentrating on shifting when I should shift and testing auto shift. Suddenly in 6th gear the bike got a mind of its own and went to the left. I looked to see where I was at on the track and I could still see the orange and yellow flags so I know this happened right before the mile flags. I could not correct the bike no matter what I did so I got in the brakes as hard as I could to scrub off speed. I looked to see what might be in my way as I could not change where the bike was going. There was nothing in my way and I knew I was going to leave the track before the first turn off but I thought I could ride it out and was prepared to do so. I let off the brakes one time thinking that maybe the heavy braking was holding me in the leftward trajectory but still could not change where the bike was going. I continued to squeeze the breaks as hard as I safely could and saw myself go from pavement to grass. The next memory I have is knowing I was having a very violent wreck and wondering when it was going to end. Seconds seemed like hours at that point and I couldn’t figure out why I was crashing because I honestly thought I could ride it out. At this point I think I caused the crash because I i should have let out of the brakes a bit when I left the pavement and I am not sure why I did not. Maybe it was panic, I am not sure but I was very surprised at the fact that I was crashing. I remember thinking I was upside down, rightside up and trying to get away from the bike and then laying there dazed waiting for Steve to get there. I am not sure why I lost the ability to control where the bike was going and in my opinion I think it was caused by the fairings. It was very sudden and happened right before the mile flags. I am pretty certain that I caused the actual crash by not letting out of the brakes when I left the track. Once I came out of the coma my memory was very fuzzy but i was told that I lost my position on the track and veered off. I thought about it a lot because I have never not known exactly where I was on the track. I couldn’t figure out how I could have gotten so far off center that I could leave the pavement before I knew I wasn’t on course. I decided that my helmet must have been buffeting in the wind and I couldn’t tell where I was. Then after I had been home a few months I think it was in January, I had the memory of exactly what happened hit me like a lightning bolt. It is still very vivid and I am sure that I am remembering correctly. There has been a lot of speculation but no one will ever convince me that my memory is wrong. I never lost a grip on either bar or either peg. And I can only wish I would have lost a grip on the brakes as I left the track. I do know that something happened with the bike that caused it to go left and I know that I tried everything I could do to straighten it out but could not so I was along for the ride. I also believe that it was rider error that caused the actual crash. If any of you have questions I will do my best to answer them. Now I have to tell you all the bad news. I will no longer be able to compete in land speed racing. It is the hardest thing I have had to deal with and is much worse than losing my leg. Being able to still race had been my reason to get through all the crap. As many of you know I had gone back to riding Fred Vance’s big motor bike. That bike felt like home to me and was very easy to get back on. I had to be more careful and the gusty wind at Texas mile took on a whole new meaning but I was doing great and had run a 220 at the first event and a 222 at the second. We had planned to go to arkansas and Texas in September and October but Fred passed away before those events. His wife Bonnye did not want me riding his bike any longer and she gave it away. This has been the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life and I am not doing a very good job of it. It has affected my life much more than the crash and I find it hard to be positive or even appreciate being alive. So for those of you who think I am a badass I just really want you to know that I am not. I am a little baby who doesn’t appreciate living without racing and can’t figure out a way to move forward. So now you all know the truth!
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Thanks for sharing that Brenda Sue ,
If you couldn’t control the bike on the track because of wind it would have been difficult to avoid a crash once you left the track even without the braking ,
I think you are much more badass than you realise
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I am pretty sure that there was no wind.
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uuummmmmm, you sound like a very analytical person (as I am also), we tend in hindsight to analyse every "little" detail, which can be a two edge sword :)
On track things happen very quickly and our basic survival riding instincts take over, coud'a, shoud'a, woud'a,, I know its hard but try not too beat up too much on yourself, its what we do, shite happens :(
Racing future?, yeah, tell me whats gunna happen tomorrow :tu:
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my experience running loring is that if theres a bit of a cross wind, it hits hard right around the mile marker. you may not notice a thing till you get that far. seems to be the smalls hills in the area that help to shield the first bit of the track, and i know many people only run the mile because of this. I can only do mile passes on my turbo when its windy or it pushes me all over the place. in my opinion, the better the body work is at going straight, the better it typically is at catching a cross wind like a said.
still have the ZX-11?
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Scott, you may very well be right. It did not feel like wind to me but I am used to the devil wind we have here in Texas. Usually the wind will slow you some ability to move the bike around but it was the first bike I have risen with such radical fairings, especially on the rear. And yes I tend to analyze things to death. I sold the zx11 in January with Doug Meyers’ blessing. He actually found the buyer and I think it is a very good home for the bike. I still have my stock motored drag bike and thank God for that. I don’t know what I would do without at least that. Drag racing is very difficult to do and I wear my prosthetic when I drag race because even if I lose a peg it is no big deal. I need a lot of help when I drag race and have been very lucky to have met a few people who help me without fail. It has been a challenge and I am much more comfortable racing land speed without my leg on.
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do we have a photo of this bike before the incedent ?, please post so we can see what aero we are talking about 8)
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I don’t seem to be able to post pictures but if someone will message me on fb I will send a picture to post.
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(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a5dc26b3127ccee81b71e6223e00000030O00AZNWrhk1aOGIPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108452855220150207223751372.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Catalyst bodywork
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That bodywork gave me a front end shimmy on the salt from about 165mph, pushed it for several more passes hoping to get through the instability and at 218 decided WTF was i doing , 2 oscillations/sec was not going to go away , i cut mine up ...
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Did the body have a port hole type windscreen, or was it a full type ??
A full type allows for 100* Peripheral Vision,, a port hole dose not (tunnel vision, target fixation) :evil:
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Full windshield
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I'm posting this pic for Brenda.
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Thanks Brenda for the report. There are always things to appreciate and enjoy, we are all lucky to be here.
On the Catalyst bodywork - I can't think of anybody other than the late Andy Sills who has used this bodywork with any real success. I see that Erin Sills is using different bodywork on her BMW.
I have a set of this bodywork, but have never run it. I was planning to adapt it to the ZX10 at some point by cutting it in down the middle and narrowing it.
Has anyone had success with this body?
Dean
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Or any other big land speed fairing ?
I have one on the shelf ,but decided to leave it there for decoration.
Mostly when i hear news somebody running those fairings, its bad news.
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In my opinion Ralph Hudson is running the best body work.
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I have Catalyst bodywork on my bike, it was "not" symmetrical out of the mold, I spent a lot of time trying to get it right, its close, but, still not spoton,, heres a photo of when I ran it in 16, the tail section has been sectioned and the seat area modified, at a little over 200 a 8mph crosswind sent the thing into a hundred yard broardside, at one point thought I was going down but managed to save it,, after installing a double bubble screen and cutting the rear down to suit mps, at this years event given the less than ideal conditions, seemed to be behaveing itself :)
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Great looking bike.... these fairings we use are game changers and give us more speed than thousands of dollars in motor work can. There are many dangers and any good pilot will tell you that. I think the main thing is in the math that calculates wing area and lift. If I did not know better I would have said the frame was bent. That’s how it felt but would have felt that from the start and I did not. This much I can say with confidence.... that motor was more than able to run 250 on pavement n/a, and I blew the chance!!!
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More pics for Brenda.
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:(
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Thank you for posting for me.
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Thank you for posting for me.
My pleasure Brenda.
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Brenda thanks for sharing....
do you know what the weight distribution of the bike was when you were aboard?
Do you think it is possible that the front wheel was not on the ground hard enough until you were on the brakes.... and were you still trying to steer the bike after you applied the brakes?
And yes you are a bad ass... in a tutu.... keep the faith in yourself and your abilities
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This much I can say with confidence.... that motor was more than able to run 250 on pavement n/a, and I blew the chance!!!
Was there much more power than what was in Fred´s bike ?
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Yes a bit more power and a very special motor!!! I have no idea about weight distribution and I was trying to steer, trying to yank the bike around, trying to lean, with the brakes on and off. I could not change the trajectory one bit. NONE!!! It happened very sudden and the bike started dragging me off the track, I tried everything. It happened right before the mile and I went through the mile at 223 on the brakes hard. And remember I shortshifted 1st thru 4th and skipped second all together just in and out of second.
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It looks like the body was well supported with tubing, and aligned symmetrically. Did anyone do a post-mortem on the chassis, to see if anything might have contributed? Wheels, tires, bearings, etc etc. Maybe you were spinning the tire and caught a piece of debris?
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The best we can do here is speculate as to what caused the crash,,
It would be interesting to hear from those who set the bike up, was a center of pressure/gravity anaylist done, wheel bias ??
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No I don’t think the bike was looked at very much after the crash it was just thrown in the trailer and I was in a coma for the next month. Yes the fairing was attached very well and was an expensive set up. I don’t know the answers to all of you guys excellent questions about pressure gravity or bias. I have wondered what caused me to suddenly not be able to steer the bike causing it to make a straight shot for the grass but I do know I caused the crash by not letting go of the brakes when I left the pavement. The race I did before the loring event was on Fred’s bike and it did something similar at 202mph but it wasn’t sudden and it was a bent frame.i was able to save it but it was a hell of a ride. This felt very similar but happened suddenly! I wish the bike had been carefully gone over after the wreck simply to find the cause and keep it from happening again. Shit happens and people make mistakes.... like not letting go of the brakes! Texas mile is coming up and I am getting so sad knowing I won’t be racing. Who is going?
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in the photo of Reply #26, there appears to be damage to the swingarm, yet the fairing bracket above it and the footpeg appear to have no damage,, if the swingarm was beginning to collapse on this side (drive side) it would turn you left and would make it extremily difficult to steer back onto the track :(
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That is something I noticed as well but with pictures it is hard to know for sure. I appreciate any input from whomever! I thank you all for not pointing fingers because no one intentionally missed a defect or did a sloppy job. And that includes me and the fact I did not let off the brakes when I left the pavement. I do not have years of motorcycle riding experience but I did know I should have let off the brakes. This is more proof of what the danger of panic. Kind of like having to pump the brakes on a car when you are sliding into something. Abs has saved my truck on many occasions! I don’t think and would have helped here but who knows....
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Braking got me too and i think i have a lot of experiance at feeling the edge of the lockup point and relaxing slightly from years of dirt and track day riding, for me , bent throttle blades kept the drive going and i compensated by pulling harder on the lever , should have clutched it, Hindsight doesnt help in the moment .
I keep thinking you had at least some wind by your description,, could have been something small like an unseen dust devil that initiated a problem you could not recover from
another thing that catches people out is fairing to fender clearance, at speed with downforce and braking you can have contact and interfere with steering response, i have done it and now particulary fussy about setting the clearance at more than potential suspension travel
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Disappointing to remember, but Bill Warner's bad
crash at Texas after a 278mph run was due to
inexperience and poor braking technique............
"Your" Loring bike had a non-standard swing arm
that might have been acceptable for drag racing,
but might have had high speed problems.
In about 2004, John Noonan's Bonneville bike had
BAD handling problems that disappeared when he
replaced his aftermarket swing arm with a stock unit.
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in the photo of Reply #26, there appears to be damage to the swingarm,
yet the fairing bracket above it and the footpeg appear to have no damage,,
if the swingarm was beginning to collapse on this side (drive side)
it would turn you left and would make it extremely
difficult to steer back onto the track :(
Roo:
You have a good eye, and may be onto something here.
The swing arm looks to have a "kink" and/or a sharp bend.
And yet..................both the fairing mount(s)
and the foot peg appear unaffected.
Where would have the impact force to the swing arm have "input"
without damaging those other two "fragile" items ?
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in the photo of reply#19, there appears to be no damage to that area of the swingarm,,
Is this photo from the same event as I notice the front fender and signage on the rear fairing is different ?,,
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we had a turbo busa bend a chromo arm on the dyno. not to mention, if you ever have a bike strapped by the rear only, and wiggle the bike, one with an aluminum arm feels solid and one with a chromo feels rubbery. I dont think that was the drive issue here, i think it was wind, but just putting that info out there. i would rather run bolt on extensions over a chromo arm that isnt braced extensively. Ive been 234 on a set without issue (full weight street bike at 317 hp)
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I was in Death Valley back in 02 with all the Busa guys, railing along pretty good with the wind at my back on a long stright, went into a large right hand sweeper, only had to scrub 25 mph or so off or so I thought, so I went from like 165 to 135 and dipped into the right but the wind that had been at my back was now coming from the right so hard it wouldn't let me lay the bike over enough to clear the corner, what little I did get lent over I looked at the trajectory and thought OK still gonna make it with inches to spare in the oncoming lane, the wind just would not let me lean over any more and it wanted to stand the bike up, I could feel it so I didn't put up much of a fight it much
trajectory was there appeared to be good but so was about a foot of sand the road scraper had pushed up onto the ashpalt, I hit that and went down like a 2 dollar whooer, I rode out the lowside staring up on my back, got lucky I guess? rode away from it @ 135, Nickslick has the video, cam mounted on the clip on
IMHO the wind even tho it doesn't appear to be pushing that hard can catch and big faired bike and hold it down or not let it down, definitely push one off line, however bar input feels sorta spungy, not locked, like it wants to move but wont..
I've been on race course situations where you had to calculate wind into your set.. either get her laid over before hand or hit a trajectory so that when it hits you it pushes you online so you're still in good shape, understeer the turn and let it push you into it... crazy stuff
maybe some day you get back on a bike? all sorts of LSR you don't have to be the fastest MPH to get your name in the book, just the fastest in your category and they have a category for pretty much everything on wheels, maybe the new Honda monkey bike is calling you? :-)
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For what it is worth:
I had a stock rear swing arm on my Nitrous Bike that gave me fits. Over a two year period of time the bike started driving left more and more. The Arkansas Mile of 2017, I couldn't keep the bike straight enough to do a full run. Thought it was the wind. Loring of that same year, it got worse and I was fighting to the 1/2 mile were I had to abort every pass or I would have drove off the course. Worked on the bike for 6 straight weeks afterwards measuring every suspension component with a micrometer and found very little wrong. So just out of giggles, I replaced the rear swing arm with one that had just a few hundred miles on it. The next event was a 1/2 mile near Indy bike and the bike drove straight as could be. Haven't had the opportunity to do a 1 mile pass/event since then.
I've also noticed over the years that a full tail fairing will cause a push in a crosswind of any amount. Unlike a "normal" motorcycle, it leans into the wind. I believe that's because in a crosswind the fairing acts like a kite and tries to push the rear tire out from under the bike.
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For what it is worth:
I had a stock rear swing arm on my Nitrous Bike that gave me fits. Over a two year period of time the bike started driving left more and more. The Arkansas Mile of 2017, I couldn't keep the bike straight enough to do a full run. Thought it was the wind. Loring of that same year, it got worse and I was fighting to the 1/2 mile were I had to abort every pass or I would have drove off the course. Worked on the bike for 6 straight weeks afterwards measuring every suspension component with a micrometer and found very little wrong. So just out of giggles, I replaced the rear swing arm with one that had just a few hundred miles on it. The next event was a 1/2 mile near Indy bike and the bike drove straight as could be.
My friends been having similar problems on his bike, feeling like wind , even when there is not.
Only thing we found was some slack in the adjustable dogbones,
also not been on track after fixings.
I will recommend to swap the swingarm next.
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The only reasonable explanation was metal fatigue in the swing arm. The more power I applied the worse the bike would pull to the left. The only other spec that was out at all, was the triple tree it was the left side was an 1/8" different that the right side.
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Hi Brenda, I know you say that you do not recall any wind but gusts can happen anytime without warning as an example at our UK meeting at Elvington last weekend I had the awning that is fixed to the side of my trailer fully out to create some shade for me and the laptop gathering data. I have flat plates to fit to the front legs of the awning on which I put a tool box or fuel drum to prevent the awning moving or lifting but as the wind was so slight low single figures I had not fitted the plates.
During the morning out of nowhere a gust lifted the awning and blew it over the top of the trailer completely....of course I fitted the plates then but it was a little late.
The previous meeting we had a straight direct headwind 15 to 25mph right at us with an ocasional flick or swirl to a 90 degree crosswind so nobody was going real fast against that. I did a run with a lot of boost to gather data really but as I approached the timing lights an invisible hand started pushing me across the track and I could do little to steer the bike back on its true course but was lucky I was far enough across the track to miss the timing lights.....I already have that T shirt having previously put my foot through a set at 186.9 mph the last thing they ever recorded subsequently going down....that was a direct result of a gust of wind through the trees and bushes at Woodbridge,I got off lightly with a broken toe and some scuffs and scrapes I was lucky,I must weigh twice what you do and my bikes are mostly lightly faired so if the breeze can move me its easy to see how it could blow your little self off course.
I suppose I am trying to say dont beat yourself up over rider error because it is so so difficult to react to anything at 300 feet per second plus and there is honestly very little you can do at that speed even if you are built like The Hulk so remember you have suffered more than enough and it was not just your fault....we have all had moments even Becci who I know had her foot blown off the footpeg leading to her crash a few years ago.
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Ok you can imagine my surprise after close to 5 years I found an article and this is a direct copy/paste from it.......
Limestone Police Chief Stacey Mahan said Tuesday that he has not been able to interview Carver yet about what might have happened.
“We can’t say with 100 percent certainty, but it looked like a part of the motorcycle touched the ground or came loose,” Mahan said. “She probably knew something was up, or the bike felt different and it was slowing down, so she went to the grassy area, which is where they were supposed to go if there are any issues. Again, we can’t confirm but it seems that something scraped on the ground.”
After inspecting the vehicle, Mahan said he noticed a “fairly decent scrape” on the plastic located on the lower portion of the motorcycle.
“The scrape may have occurred prior to her slowing down,” said Mahan. “I can’t say for sure without talking to her, but it looks that way.”
So this matches exactly what I remember, would this be caused by a gust on a day with hardly any wind at all? I bout fell out my chair when I read this. Too bad it’s been so long, I wonder what the scrape looked like and what made them think it happened prior to me slowing down..... something I have accepted I will never know. And that sucks. And why don’t any of you guys ever include my speeds on any of your lists? I always thought it is better to be a has been than a never was but it seems like, at least with y’alls lists, I never was.....
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Interesting... out of curiosity, where did you find this article?
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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I believe it was in a news paper. I found it online.