Loring crash...

[SEJ]

More pics for Brenda.

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[brendasue555]

Thank you for posting for me.   

[SEJ]

Thank you for posting for me.

My pleasure Brenda.

[Stainless1]

Brenda thanks for sharing....
do you know what the weight distribution of the bike was when you were aboard?

Do you think it is possible that the front wheel was not on the ground hard enough until you were on the brakes.... and were you still trying to steer the bike after you applied the brakes?

And yes you are a bad ass... in a tutu.... keep the faith in yourself and your abilities

[speedduck]

This much I can say with confidence.... that motor was more than able to run 250 on pavement n/a,  and I blew the chance!!!

Was there much more power than what was in Fred´s bike ?

[brendasue555]

Yes a bit more power and a very special motor!!! I have no idea about weight distribution and I was trying to steer, trying to yank the bike around, trying to lean, with the brakes on and off.   I could not change the trajectory one bit.   NONE!!!  It happened very sudden and the bike started dragging me off the track,  I tried everything.   It happened right before the mile and I went through the mile at 223 on the brakes hard. And remember I shortshifted 1st thru 4th and skipped second all together just in and out of second. 

[zrxdean]

It looks like the body was well supported with tubing, and aligned symmetrically.  Did anyone do a post-mortem on the chassis, to see if anything might have contributed? Wheels, tires, bearings, etc etc. Maybe you were spinning the tire and caught a piece of debris?

[FlaminRoo]

The best we can do here is speculate as to what caused the crash,,

It would be interesting to hear from those who set the bike up, was a center of pressure/gravity anaylist done, wheel bias ??

[brendasue555]

No I don’t think the bike was looked at very much after the crash it was just thrown in the trailer and I was in a coma for the next month.   Yes the fairing was attached very well and was an expensive set up.   I don’t know the answers to all of you guys excellent questions about pressure gravity or bias.  I have wondered what caused me to suddenly not be able to steer the bike causing it to make a straight shot for the grass but I do know I caused the crash by not letting go of the brakes when I left the pavement.   The race I did before the loring event was on Fred’s bike and it did something similar at 202mph but it wasn’t sudden and it was a bent frame.i was able to save it but it was a hell of a ride.   This felt very similar but happened suddenly!   I wish the bike had been carefully gone over after the wreck simply to find the cause and keep it from happening again.  Shit happens and people make mistakes.... like not letting go of the brakes!  Texas mile is coming up and I am getting so sad knowing I won’t be racing.  Who is going? 

[FlaminRoo]

in the photo of Reply #26, there appears to be damage to the swingarm, yet the fairing bracket above it and the footpeg appear to have no damage,, if the swingarm was beginning to collapse on this side (drive side) it would turn you left and would make it extremily difficult to steer back onto the track 

[brendasue555]

That is something I noticed as well but with pictures it is hard to know for sure.   I appreciate any input from whomever!   I thank you all for not pointing fingers because no one intentionally missed a defect or did a sloppy job.  And that includes me and the fact I did not let off the brakes when I left the pavement.   I do not have years of motorcycle riding experience but I did know I should have let off the brakes.   This is more proof of what the danger of panic.   Kind of like having to pump the brakes on a car when you are sliding into something.   Abs has saved my truck on many occasions!   I don’t think and would have helped here but who knows.... 

[Oz Booster]

Braking got me too  and i think i have a lot of experiance at feeling the edge of the lockup point and relaxing slightly from years of dirt and track day riding, for me , bent throttle blades kept the drive going and i compensated by pulling harder on the lever , should have clutched it, Hindsight doesnt help in the moment .

I keep thinking you had at least some wind by your description,, could have been something small like an unseen dust devil that initiated a problem you could not recover from 

another thing that catches people out is fairing to fender clearance, at speed with downforce and braking you can have contact and interfere with steering response, i have done it  and now particulary fussy about setting the clearance at more than potential suspension travel   

 

[scott g]

Disappointing to remember, but Bill Warner's bad
crash at Texas after a 278mph run was due to
inexperience and poor braking technique............

"Your" Loring bike had a non-standard swing arm
 that might have been acceptable for drag racing,
but might have had high speed problems.

In about 2004, John Noonan's Bonneville bike had
BAD handling problems that disappeared when he
replaced his aftermarket swing arm with a stock unit.

[scott g]

in the photo of Reply #26, there appears to be damage to the swingarm,
yet the fairing bracket above it and the footpeg appear to have no damage,,

if the swingarm was beginning to collapse on this side (drive side)
it would turn you left and would make it extremely
difficult to steer back onto the track 

Roo:

You have a good eye, and may be onto something here.

The swing arm looks to have a "kink" and/or a sharp bend.

And yet..................both the fairing mount(s)
and the foot peg appear unaffected.

Where would have the impact force to the swing arm have "input"
without damaging those other two "fragile" items ?

[FlaminRoo]

in the photo of reply#19, there appears to be no damage to that area of the swingarm,,

Is this photo from the same event as I notice the front fender and signage on the rear fairing is different ?,,

[KZScott]

we had a turbo busa bend a chromo arm on the dyno. not to mention, if you ever have a bike strapped by the rear only, and wiggle the bike, one with an aluminum arm feels solid and one with a chromo feels rubbery. I dont think that was the drive issue here, i think it was wind, but just putting that info out there. i would rather run bolt on extensions over a chromo arm that isnt braced extensively. Ive been 234 on a set without issue (full weight street bike at 317 hp)

[Twisted]

I was in Death Valley back in 02 with all the Busa guys, railing along pretty good with the wind at my back on a long stright, went into a large right hand sweeper, only had to scrub 25 mph or so off or so I thought, so I went from like 165 to 135 and dipped into the right but the wind that had been at my back was now coming from the right so hard it wouldn't let me lay the bike over enough to clear the corner, what little I did get lent over I looked at the trajectory and thought OK still gonna make it with inches to spare in the oncoming lane, the wind just would not let me lean over any more and it wanted to stand the bike up, I could feel it so I didn't put up much of a fight it much

trajectory was there appeared to be good but so was about a foot of sand the road scraper had pushed up onto the ashpalt, I hit that and went down like a 2 dollar whooer, I rode out the lowside staring up on my back, got lucky I guess? rode away from it @ 135, Nickslick has the video, cam mounted on the clip on

IMHO the wind even tho it doesn't appear to be pushing that hard can catch and big faired bike and hold it down or not let it down, definitely push one off line, however bar input feels sorta spungy, not locked, like it wants to move but wont..

I've been on race course situations where you had to calculate wind into your set.. either get her laid over before hand or hit a trajectory so that when it hits you it pushes you online so you're still in good shape,  understeer the turn and let it push you into it... crazy stuff

maybe some day you get back on a bike? all sorts of LSR you don't have to be the fastest MPH to get your name in the book, just the fastest in your category and they have a category for pretty much everything on wheels, maybe the new Honda monkey bike is calling you?   

[RansomT]

For what it is worth: 
I had a stock rear swing arm on my Nitrous Bike that gave me fits. Over a two year period of time the bike started driving left more and more.  The Arkansas Mile of 2017, I couldn't keep the bike straight enough to do a full run. Thought it was the wind. Loring of that same year, it got worse and I was fighting to the 1/2 mile were I had to abort every pass or I would have drove off the course.  Worked on the bike for 6 straight weeks afterwards measuring every suspension component with a micrometer and found very little wrong.  So just out of giggles, I replaced the rear swing arm with one that had just a few hundred miles on it.  The next event was a 1/2 mile near Indy bike and the bike drove straight as could be.  Haven't had the opportunity to do a 1 mile pass/event since then.


I've also noticed over the years that a full tail fairing will cause a push in a crosswind of any amount.  Unlike a "normal" motorcycle, it leans into the wind. I believe that's because in a crosswind the fairing acts like a kite and tries to push the rear tire out from under the bike.

[speedduck]

For what it is worth: 
I had a stock rear swing arm on my Nitrous Bike that gave me fits. Over a two year period of time the bike started driving left more and more.  The Arkansas Mile of 2017, I couldn't keep the bike straight enough to do a full run. Thought it was the wind. Loring of that same year, it got worse and I was fighting to the 1/2 mile were I had to abort every pass or I would have drove off the course.  Worked on the bike for 6 straight weeks afterwards measuring every suspension component with a micrometer and found very little wrong.  So just out of giggles, I replaced the rear swing arm with one that had just a few hundred miles on it.  The next event was a 1/2 mile near Indy bike and the bike drove straight as could be.

My friends been having similar problems on his bike, feeling like wind , even when there is not.
Only thing we found was some slack in the adjustable dogbones,
also not been on track after fixings.
I will recommend to swap the swingarm next.

[RansomT]

The only reasonable explanation was metal fatigue in the swing arm.  The more power I applied the worse the bike would pull to the left. The only other spec that was out at all, was the triple tree it was the left side was an 1/8" different that the right side.

[Ken 12r]

Hi Brenda, I know you say that you do not recall any wind but gusts can happen anytime without warning as an example at our UK meeting at Elvington last weekend I had the awning that is fixed to the side of my trailer fully out to create some shade for me and the laptop gathering data. I have flat plates to fit to the front legs of the awning on which I put a tool box or fuel drum to prevent the awning moving or lifting but as the wind was so slight low single figures I had not fitted the plates.
During the morning out of nowhere a gust lifted the awning and blew it over the top of the trailer completely....of course I fitted the plates then but it was a little late.
The previous meeting we had a straight direct headwind 15 to 25mph right at us with an ocasional flick or swirl to a 90 degree crosswind so nobody was going real fast against that. I did a run with a lot of boost to gather data really but as I approached the timing lights an invisible hand started pushing me across the track and I could do little to steer the bike back on its true course but was lucky I was far enough across the track to miss the timing lights.....I already have that T shirt having previously put my foot through a set at 186.9 mph the last thing they ever recorded subsequently going down....that was a direct result of a gust of wind through the trees and bushes at Woodbridge,I got off lightly with a broken toe and some scuffs and scrapes I was lucky,I must weigh twice what you do and my bikes are mostly lightly faired so if the breeze can move me its easy to see how it could blow your little self off course.
I suppose I am trying to say dont beat yourself up over rider error because it is so so difficult to react to anything at 300 feet per second plus and there is honestly very little you can do at that speed even if you are built like The Hulk so remember you have suffered more than enough and it was not just your fault....we have all had moments even Becci who I know had her foot blown off the footpeg leading to her crash a few years ago.